Noise nuisance notification

chrismahon

chrismahon

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Hello all,

Yesterday we received notice from the Council that we were being investigated for an alleged statutory noise nuisance caused by our cockerels. They were not specific so we don't know what aspect of our cockerels presence is the problem. We have had cockerels for 4 years and had 20 cockerels this time last year but are now down to 5. One is a pet and considers the house his coop. He has been a resident for 3 years. Because the garden is separate to the house we have potentially at least 6 neighbours who could now have decided to complain.

We haven't had any new neighbours for 3 years and nothing appears to have changed. We can only imaging that someone has a grudge for some reason. About 8 years ago three times we tried to get a neighbour prosecuted for deliberately slamming his front door, which is located in our hallway and echoes throughout the house. Loads of paperwork only to be told there was insufficient evidence each time. Then 5 years ago we caught him trying to pull our front door off the hinges, which he denied repeatedly under oath. Recently they have been very very quiet -since their son returned home as a girl actually. He threatened me last month with some unspecified action so maybe this is it.

Reading the Council guidelines to reduce noise we have complied with them all, except the one that says "Cockerels tend to crow from first light, if keeping the birds in a darkened pen does not work on its own, a high level shelf can be put in the house to allow the cockerel to walk around at normal height but prevents it from stretching its neck to make the crowing sound."

Practical Poultry said in their last issue that there are 70,000 registered users of this site. I would expect that some of you have had experience of this type of alleged noise nuisance. Hopefully some will have defeated action by the Council and will have some information I can use in our defence. Ideally a previous case that set a legal precident but otherwise some other favourable judgements I can refer to in Court if necessary.
 
Just to say this insenced me and so I googled "noise from cockerals" and came across jamieoliver.com.
You have no doubt been trawling the internet too but if you haven't seen this I thought I'd drop you a post about it. There is a post on there dated 20/5/11 from a Joe Newell on 0207 8746665 who is researching for a tv programme on Maverick Television (not heard of them myself) about those who are having problems with neighbours complaining about noise from cockerals-may be worth a call.
 
Thanks Newtoducks. I've phoned and left a message. Have contacted the Council's 'Noise Pollution' team who tell me that the noise is disturbing sleep between 4.30 and 5.00am and occasional disturbance during the day. Well the haulage yard over the road still starts at 4.00am. We took action to stop them starting at 3.00am with no support from anyone else, because everyone else was too frightened to say anything and claimed they heard nothing. In fact some of them even supported the haulier! The haulier wanted to work even earlier but now can't, so last year relocated most of their operation. Now the traffic has dramatically reduced the neighbours are lucky they can actually hear the cockerels. Previously they were drowned out by the articulated lorries!!
In our favour at this stage is that they now need to gather evidence. This is a long process and the mornings are getting darker. So with a bit of luck they won't get any early morning evidence when they need it and the case will be automatically closed.
 
Hi there,
We have a cock (Eddie) and neighbours both sides although a field at the back. We bought an automatic door opener, timed to open at 7.30am to reduce disturbance to neighbours. He is still crowing at 4/5am but it is very muffled. We also have loads of shrubs around the chicken pen which also absorbs noise. I know it would be nice for them to be out at first light but I cannot risk complaints to the council. They are expensive but well worth the investment I think.
Good luck with your fight.
 
Thanks Clairethebear. We don't let ours out until 6.00am earliest ever, 6.40 am now. The air vents face away from the neigbours as well. So the noise is travelling through the wood of the coops and through their double glazing 30 yards away. The A38 noise starts up about 5.00am so that's masking the noise. Yes you can hear them, but I don't think it constitutes a nuisance. During the daytime there is so much noise from the A38 and the industrial units the cockerels are drowned out by it. The Council determined that the noise of a fully loaded articulated lorry passing 9 yards away at 4.00am through single glazing didn't constitute a nuisance to us, so we await their comments on this one.
 
surely they cant do much because you had him longer than 2 years. unless council or ex council house i thought
 
House was a pub in 1830. Converted to three houses in 1935 but our garden is 50 yards away and separated by other houses so no issues there. I think the complainant has got to explain why, after the noise has been going on for two years and has recently actually reduced by three cockerels, they see fit to complain about it now. Council have told us to do nothing different until they have investigated further.
 
Good luck, hope all goes well, why people can not mind their own business, I think the sound of a cockerel is lovely :-)17
 
Well. 6 weeks on and I contacted the 'pollution team' to ask what progress had ben made with this complaint. Apparently the diary sheets are just back, itemising the cockerel noise heard between 4.30 and 5.00am which disturbs their sleep. An Investigating Officer is now assigned to install recording equipment, but he's on holiday now until 26th September. What puzzles me is how the diary sheets got filled in with sleep disturbance at those times when they are not let out until 7.00am. Are they confusing the sound of lorries, which start at 4.00am from the next door haulage yard, with the sound of a cockerel? Could be!
 
some people really aint got nothing better to do with thier time , i may very well have a cockeral polish bantam and if he crows and the council get complaints then he will go but i am praying he doesnt crow very loud and i would say a good majority of the people living around the allotment site actully want me to keep him and they say they dont care if he crows but it only takes one person :( .. i can hear my girls from my window if its open as i have one that tends to shreik quite loud but so far no one has complained but it worries me thing is i have to put up with very low flying aircraft { live down the road from heathrow } screaming kids , a very busy road etc etc a cockeral crowing any day . good luck chris :-)17
 
Hello Chris,

we have been served with the same notice from the Council and even had a chap from Council coming to talk to us about the noise. Our cockerel used to crow very early and we only started to keep him shut in a coop after those complains (we never kept chickens before so had to learn few things hard way). He ended up in a coop under specially made cardboard box every night; he couldn't stand up in a coop (he was a very large cockerel) but kept crowing.

I do appreciate that cockerel crowing at 5am is a proper nuisance. Our cockerel (and the rest of the flock) was kept shut until 8-9am every morning and yet the complains kept coming. We have a building site next to us and surprisingly nobody ever complained about their noise (as early as 7am).

We had to get a rid of him at the end.

All I can say is - if your neighbours were ok with your cockerels for so many years the recent complain comes as a surprise. There are many weird people living in our neighbourhoods ... One of our neighbour said angrily to me once that chickens belong to the farm and not where people live...
 
Well Hepina, sounds as if that neighbour is the one that complained. Did you go to Court and explain all the other noise to the magistrates? You can hear our cockerels if you listen for them as it is a different sound to A38 traffic. But it is no louder, just a different frequency. We'll see what happens. They have got to get a Court Order first and then prove that it has not been complied with. I am quite happy to go to Court to argue my case. We live in the Country so you expect to hear cockerels, so the egg buying tourists tell me.
 
Just to update. The recording equipment should be going in now, but I haven't seen anyone around. As I am almost always in they will have to sneak the equipment into the house that made the complaint otherwise I will know who it is. That assumes that the check of the diary sheets justifies installing it. At the 4.30 to 5.00 am times of the original complaint it is very quiet around here. The traffic then starts and gets increasingly louder until 7.00 am when the cockerels wake up and try to shout, unsuccessfully, over the background noise. So two months gone so far.
 
iv been told they have to tell you who complained as you have to beable to face you acuser (not sure if true but can try). if there garden does not attach to your garden i dont think they can do any thing
dont let them bully youwith their threats, i found asking to talk to the councils solitor rather than the person coming round works
 
Thanks for that. There seems to be a big difference between what the council says and what the law says. As you say we are being bullied by their threats without just cause in my opinion. Yes if it goes to court I can insist on facing our accuser. Without knowing who has made the complaint I can't know what the problem is anyway as we have a pet cockerel in the house with two neighbours and 50 yards away 5 more in our Orchard with a separate set of neighbours. Don't think any are a problem really.
 
iv had aguments over some thing else with my local council. it wasnt till i got to the court that i spoke to their loyer she said i should of spoke to her it would of got sorted out a year earlier as the department who weere taking me to court didnt have a clue what they were talking about
best to talk to people who have a clue insted of the buzy bodies who use the job to be bullies
 
There is a law stateing yhat if the noise factor was there before ,the neibour complained not much can be done about it provideing the noise has been there for 4 yrs or above. That also goes for new neighbours moveing in.Icant exactly remember what the law is . Have a word with the poultry club or your brief. :D
 
Thanks Hannibal. Noise has only been there for three years. Yes, new court ruling is that if the activity was there before you moved in and you should have reasonably known about it you can't subsequently complain -think it was in connection with an appeal on a clay target shooting ground. Had been there 25 years without problems, the neighbour sold to a complainer and the Council closed it on noise grounds. Open again now.
 
I have been very carefull so far with the neighbours, as we have an ayelsbury duck who is very vocal when she is out of the coop fist thing but they do not get out until 08.30 of a morning and 09.00 sunday if i try to keep her in longer than that she gets louder and more frequent. I went around to the neighbours with some eggs and asked if the duck was causing any problems for them, but all said everything was fine, one of them even said his dog probably caused more noise because she gets out at 06.00 everyday. I have had most of the neighbours in to have a look at the ducks and chickens, and young chicks and they have gone down well with there children.
Good Luck
Pete
 
Our neighbours are seriously weird -in and out of each others houses constantly with little presents and bits of paperwork. Probably never seen a chicken until we got them. Update on our case -the investigating officer will contact us to advise status of complaint after Wednesday. Now two and a half months gone.
 
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