Noise nuisance notification

seeing that i am now a owner of a littleish polish bantam tpye starting to learn to crow cockeral i to have been searching the net tonight on how to stop them doing it { but you cant } and i found this http://www.blpbooks.co.uk/articles/cock_crowing/cock_crowing_noise.php dont know why but i found it interesting :-)07

a few months back a neighbour not very far from me had a live band in his garden { loads complained about it } it was that loud that even the glass shook in the windows but yet nothing was done about it yet if a bird crows all hell breaks lose go figure kids can scream all day and night ,planes can make as much noise as they want the list goes on and on but a natural sound isnt allowed .
 
Planes, trains and automobiles are exempt from noise nuisance legislation unless they are being deliberately noisy; they already have to comply with noise levels legislation of their own. It's quite a complicated subject being in two different legal acts. Basically if the noise is out of place in that area (like cockerels in suburbia) and if the noise level is above what could be tolerated by a normal average (not hypersensitive or strange) person it's forbidden. So in our case, in the Country surrounded by obvious weirdos, we should be fine with cockerels. Oh, and the noise nuisance must be of sufficient regularity (undefined) and likely to continue (for how long isn't defined either).
 
Just had some feedback from the Investigating Officer. So far they have been unable to witness evidence that the crowing cockerel is a Statutory Nuisance. But the investigation is still ongoing. Three months nearly gone. They remind me that if they do, they will issue a noise abatement notice. Of course there is a long way to go before a judge makes a decision on the matter, because I have no intention of letting the Council dictate to me.
 
chrismahon said:
Just had some feedback from the Investigating Officer. So far they have been unable to witness evidence that the crowing cockerel is a Statutory Nuisance. But the investigation is still ongoing. Three months nearly gone. They remind me that if they do, they will issue a noise abatement notice. Of course there is a long way to go before a judge makes a decision on the matter, because I have no intention of letting the Council dictate to me.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it actually be to your advantage to try to speed things up a bit? At the moment, with the dark mornings for the next 4-5 months, any complaint would be thrown out. but if they hang around until the Spring, there might be some evidence to complain about. Maybe say the strain is too much for you and please would they get on now with gathering the evidence they need, so the matter can be settled ASAP?
 
Good point Marigold. They said further down the email that they need to gather 'more tangible evidence'. They only make 3 witness visits and either then issue an order or drop the case so we are not far off that point. Problem we have is with the phrase 'more tangible'. Does this mean they have tangible evidence but they need some more or does it mean the evidence is insufficiently tangible at the moment? Only time will tell, but I think we know who the complainant is -the neighbour with the 'pure evil' son (as described by ex-teacher) who has now decided to become a girl and has just moved back home after 5 years absence.
 
Well Marigold. Over 3 months and still nothing. We have sent another email requesting clarification of the last one and asking how long do we have to wait until the enquiry is completed and we still have no answer, after nearly 3 weeks and sending it again last week. Perhaps they have to have a monthly meeting before agreeing to issue an Abatement Order. This will be the Council one which has no legal standing. If we ignore it they have to gather more evidence and go to court. If they win and we ignore it they need more evidence of the breach. We have plans anyway but we need to know exactly where the noise is being experienced before initiating them and they won't tell us yet -seems daft to me as we could have resolved this months ago.
 
There is something in the law which states that a noise nuisance has to be over a certain decibell. So normal noise like cars, traffic etc. don't count.(most cockerels, even bantams are well over this decibell level)
Unfortunately most neighbours don't share our enthusiasim about our cockerels crowing, and we should try to reduce the noise as much as we can, which reading through this thread it appears you have done chris. I love to hear my boys, but granted, not before i'm awake!
When we first started keeping male birds to breed with, we went round to all our neighbours in turn, and asked them that if they ever had a problem about the noise, they would come to us first before going complaining to the council,and we would address it and try to work out a solution. We muffle our houses with shrubs etc. It's worth also pointing out, that if you restrict a cockerel from throwing his head upwards to crow, he will just throw it downwards, and still crow, so putting them in a box where they can't stand upright won't work.
Could you bring the boys in at night chris and keep them covered up in boxes(ventilated of course) to try and reduce the noise? If it's deemed below the regulated decibell level, there's not much they can do. I would try this, even though they have said not to do anything any different, because if they are proved to make too much noise, they won't give you an oppertunity to try and stop it, they will order you to get rid of them.
We have wild pheasants round here, which are much louder than my boys, but they are deemed a wild bird, so are above reproach, it's domesticated animals/birds which something can be done about what are classed as a noise nuisance.

JubesXX
 
Hi Jubilee. We think the noise is coming from our pet who is already in the house and its the nastiest neigbour who has complained, for no other reason than spite. 3 years he has been in the house at night so now he may need an indoor coop (under the kitchen table) or we may fit a doorway to seal of the loft rooms (good for heat loss as well). But until we can pinpoint the problem we don't know which approach and can't even be certain it is the nastiest neighbour, so it may still be an outside problem with the other 5 cockerels.

The actual noise level of a nuisance is not defined in law. Cars, lorries, motorbikes, aircraft and trains are all exempt from nuisance as they have pre-defined noise output limits. The nuisance is in the ear of the complainer and if it is judged to be at a level that would upset any normal person it is a nuisance. Vague I know, but the law is generally in my experience.
 
the lorrys from the buisness park may be the problem they could be the one that actually wakes people up then once awake all they will hear will be your cockeral, good luck...
 
You've hit the nail on the head there Shirtentie. We have noticed that Bottom wakes up at 5.30am, without any external noise apparent to us we thought. But recently I have been getting up very quietly before that and waiting. Turns out that the probable complainers get up at 5.30am and start thumping about downstairs and running up and down their staircase. We can hear it, although I didn't realise before that's what is initially waking us up. Bottom hears it as well and wakes up thinking its morning and we are coming down to the kitchen. The curtains are closed so he can't see it's still dark. He then goes into his 'I'm here and this is my territory' routine for a few minutes. If we don't appear he goes back to sleep only to start again when we do appear around 6.00am, when the neighbours are leaving their house.
So, assuming at the moment these neighbours are the ones complaining, effectively they wake Bottom and us and their son (or is it daughter at the moment). Bottom then starts crowing, which then appears to be what wakes both us and their offspring. So if they didn't make so much noise there wouldn't be a problem I say. There is a solid 9" brick dividing wall and their thumping and banging still travels through it. We'll see what develops with this complaint, but I have a bit more evidence against it now.
 
hi chrismahon it beggars belief why they would want to complain anyway if they are leaving the house at that time it doesnt really matter how much noise bottom is making because they wont be their to hear him, so whats the problem. bye for now all the best.
 
If that is so, then you could start a counter-complaint about them waking you up so early, let alone Bottom, ie they are causing the problem they are complaining about!
 
Quite right Marigold. One card up our sleeve for future.

Noticed this morning that the cockerels in the Orchard started at 4.55am. There is a canal boat moored alongside and I think they put their lights on early and started one (Arnold, a Wyandoytte, who is very loud)-then all the others woke up and followed suit. But you expect to hear cockerels in the countryside don't you?

We had a complaint from someone moored there last Christmas. After 4 weeks they had had enough of being woken early and moved. So something else started them off -must have been the haulage yard lights at 4.00am. Must add the permitted stay on that mooring is 48 hours, so it's a bit cheeky to be there for a month anyway.
 
hi chris i live in lancashire and my plot backs onto the leeds and liverpool canal, which is also a 48hr mooring they have in the past stayed for over 2yrs but no problem with them, its the holiday visitors we have had comments from in the past, but i just laugh at those because if you go on a relaxing holiday on a boat you are bound to be in the countryside 90% of the time. anyway back to your noise problem i think marigold is right if they could at least meet you halfway you would not complain about excessive early morning noise if they would leave your bottom alone. SORRY ABOUT THE BOTTOM PUN BUT I COULDNT RESIST THAT. bye for now.
 
Sue -the explaination. We bought two Buff Orpingtons at 5 days old which we wanted to be hens, to go with the other coloured Orpingtons in the Orchard and to keep a just hatched single Buff Orpington Company. At the same time we bought two Crested Cream Legbars. But it all went ghastly -one Orpinton killed another so culprit went. The killer Orpington was Littlest, so L.O. = Lottie. The Bigger Orpington left was B.O. and had a bald bum where the others where 'she' came from had pulled feathers out =Bottom. We intended to rename her but never did. She was separated because the Legbars used to tuck under her fluffy wings at night and she got so wound up she started to attack them to keep them away. They were persistent so we decided before the LB's were injured we would separate Bottom. So Bottom was handled constantly and used to sleep in my wife's shirt collar slowly working down the sleeve until asleep. Until 'she' got stuck one night! Time went on and she remained a pet of sorts, coming in for cucddles, with her own little coop and run away from the LB's and safe from the big hens. We waited until 26 weeks and one day before she came out of the coop, stood upright and coughed once. Next day 'she' coughed 3 times and the next HE started to crow. By this time the name Bottom had stuck. After a minor fight with the grumpy resident Rooster we had to make a decision and Bottom assumed the role. The Orpington hens pecked him all the time but he kept at them until he was big enough to get his own back, and some! (He's now 6Kg so there are no arguements in the Orchard!) But he still had his cuddle before going back out to his coop to sleep. Then, because we bought him two Buff Orpington hens who moved into his coop, we then let him sleep in the house (he got over excited and needed a rest and so did they). 3 years later and he's still here. Last time we had a holiday we took him to Tenby -but that's another story.

Not the first and won't be the last bottom pun Shirtentie.
 
Update. 4 months down the line and have heard nothing formally since the letter on 1st August. They are now ignoring our emails requesting current investigation status. We are assuming they have given up, especially as neighbours have started deliberately slamming their front door-presumably tantrum. However they did say that an investigation would be closed at 6 months automatically, so we still have 2 months to go. Then we have the same again in Summer next year I suppose.
 
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