P.S. Daughter just sent this link; https://medium.com/@jurgenthoelen/belgian-dutch-study-why-in-times-of-covid-19-you-can-not-walk-run-bike-close-to-each-other-a5df19c77d08
Coronavirus
- Thread starter Marigold
- Start date
Hen-Gen
Well-known member
Very interesting Marigold and completely logical.
Whenever we watch clips on TV from other countries they all seem to be wearing masks. And yet we are told it’s unnecessary. Seems strange.
Whenever we watch clips on TV from other countries they all seem to be wearing masks. And yet we are told it’s unnecessary. Seems strange.
Margaid
Well-known member
I saw the illustration on FB but not the article but as I know about the "benefits" of slip streaming when cycling or circuit racing, the photo was warning enough. Except that I maybe see three people if I walk to the shops ...
I had already told my sister that if someone ahead of her coughed or sneezed then she should not follow them, or walk towards them and so through their cloud. I may have to do more shopping by car which is a shame, because I suffer from hay fever and often sneeze. The car will keep me out of the pollen.
It's the WHO advice not to wear a mask if you're healthy and not exposed to other people (as bus drivers, shop assistants etc are). The reason being it has to be really tight to provide proper protection. The multiple layer paper masks get soggy from your breathing in about 30 minutes so you then have a warm damp atmosphere around your nose and mouth. Perfect breathing ground for the virus IF droplets land on your mask.
I had already told my sister that if someone ahead of her coughed or sneezed then she should not follow them, or walk towards them and so through their cloud. I may have to do more shopping by car which is a shame, because I suffer from hay fever and often sneeze. The car will keep me out of the pollen.
It's the WHO advice not to wear a mask if you're healthy and not exposed to other people (as bus drivers, shop assistants etc are). The reason being it has to be really tight to provide proper protection. The multiple layer paper masks get soggy from your breathing in about 30 minutes so you then have a warm damp atmosphere around your nose and mouth. Perfect breathing ground for the virus IF droplets land on your mask.
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Hen-Gen said:
Singapore, who were as prepared for this as it was possible to be, given that it was not their first deadly epidemic, and that they already have some fairly deadly diseases there (dengue fever, etc.), I think a lot of people there just take wearing masks during times of illness as standard. Now, my brother said, their Government have issued everyone with reusable masks.
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Margaid said:
I feel your pain! I have asthma, which presents as a persistant, dry cough. At times, I can just about feel myself turning blue, trying not to cough!! I can just imagine the looks I'd get! I'd be waiting for the garlic and stake to come out!
Tweetypie
Member
Marigold, I had also previously read that link you sent about not being close to people walking/cycling/running. I was also interested to read about the "possible" origins of coronovirus and other diseases, for example, ebola. I recently read it probably originated in China from eating bats/pangolin etc, which I would not be surprised about. I saw this (below) in a news piece, but this is not enough - the Chinese and Eastern in particular should not be eating wild species, such as bats. They might be "out of the woods" but the rest of the world is suffering because of them! Sorry to rant.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/09/china-signals-end-to-dog-meat-consumption-by-humans
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/09/china-signals-end-to-dog-meat-consumption-by-humans
Margaid
Well-known member
Love both your cartoon strips Marigold - particularly the vampire as I can relate to the library. I happily reread books so I have many happy hours ahead - when I can find time.
It isn't so much the eating Tweetypie, although to our thinking most of that is abhorrent, but rather the fact that the markets are "wet" ie that most of the stuff on sale is still alive - and there's masses of it.
It isn't so much the eating Tweetypie, although to our thinking most of that is abhorrent, but rather the fact that the markets are "wet" ie that most of the stuff on sale is still alive - and there's masses of it.
I’ve just signed up to this free app
https://covid.joinzoe.com/about
Where you report every day whether you think you have symptoms of Covid19, whether or not you’ve been tested or feel well. This enables data to be estimated about the percentage of people in each local authority or area who probably have active symptoms. Then you can look at maps showing the results from the thousands of people using the app.
In the absence of coherent Govt policy on tracking this seems a good thing to contribute to. I found out that in my area estimated percentage is 2.52% but 3.4% in Test Valley next door, ie Andover. There are some surprising variations - quite a high reading for Shetland for instance. Is anyone already doing this? The app is for phones or iPads.
https://covid.joinzoe.com/about
Where you report every day whether you think you have symptoms of Covid19, whether or not you’ve been tested or feel well. This enables data to be estimated about the percentage of people in each local authority or area who probably have active symptoms. Then you can look at maps showing the results from the thousands of people using the app.
In the absence of coherent Govt policy on tracking this seems a good thing to contribute to. I found out that in my area estimated percentage is 2.52% but 3.4% in Test Valley next door, ie Andover. There are some surprising variations - quite a high reading for Shetland for instance. Is anyone already doing this? The app is for phones or iPads.
Margaid
Well-known member
Just over a week ago I posted about my nephew, a Design and Technology teacher in a private school in Lancashire. At that point he had single handedly produced 100 masks and on Friday and Saturday made another 200. He's stopped because he's run out of materials. Any one know of any jobs going for D&T teachers in the private education sector? He'll need one from September - not because he's been making masks in the school workshop.
Attachments
Margaid
Well-known member
Sorry this is so long but it is highly informative and easy to understand. Stay safe everyone.
Message from a consultant in ICU. WHY WE ARE STAYING APART:
===============
Why do we need to shut places where people group?
Remember this: VIRAL LOAD
There will be a lot about this. Why is it important?
With this virus, the amount of virus in your blood at first infection directly relates to the severity of the illness you will suffer. This isn’t unusual - HIV management is all about reducing viral load to keep people alive longer. BUT it’s very important in COVID-19.
So if you are in, say, a pub or religious building or entertainment venue with 200 people and a large number don’t have symptoms but are shedding, you are breathing in lots of droplets per minute and absorbing a high load of the virus. In a crowded space. They become ill over the next 48 hours. You then three days later wonder why you can’t breathe and end up in hospital. You’d decided because you were young and healthy it wasn’t going to be a problem. Wrong.
Fortunately but unfortunately because the elderly are isolating quite well, the initial UK data suggests that all age groups above 20 are almost equally represented in ITUs in England. Most of the cases are in London but the wave is moving outwards.
This means that being under 60 and fit and well doesn’t seem to be as protective as we thought. Why? Viral load.
This may be skewed simply by the fact that too many Londoners didn’t do as asked and congregated in large groups in confined spaces and got a large initial viral load. They then went home and infected their wider families. Which is why, as London is overwhelmed, we need to shut everything down to save the rest of the UK. We are a week at most behind London.
Our sympathies go out to the families affected in London and the critical care teams battling right now to save as many as they can.
If I sit with one person and catch this virus, I get a small viral load. My immune system will start to fight it and by the time the virus starts replicating, I’m ready to kill it.
No medicines will help this process meaningfully hence there is no “cure” for this virus. All we can do is support you with a ventilator and hope your immune system can catch up fast enough.
If I sit in the same room with six people, all shedding I get six times the initial dose. The rise in viral load is faster than my immune system can cope with and it is overrun. I then become critically ill and need me (or someone of my specialty) to fix it instead of just being at home and being ok in the end.
THIS BIT IS IMPORTANT:
If you are a large family group, remember that by being ill and in the same room, you will make each other ill or “more ill”. If you get sick, isolate just yourself to one room and stay there. Don’t all sit in one room coughing. You will increase the viral load for all of you, reducing your survival rate.
A family of six people may produce double the droplets of a family of three in the same space. Maths is important.
If one of you is symptomatic, assume you are all shedding and make sure you keep some space.
Parents are getting it from their kids because no one is going to stop comforting their child (nor should they) so the parent gets a big hit as well as the child. I don’t think that can be helped.
REMEMBER: THINK ABOUT VIRAL LOAD
It could save your life or your child’s.
- it’s up to you now. We are preparing for the worst but we are hoping for the best from you. Please help us to help you. Stay home and take this seriously now before we need the army on the streets
Message from a consultant in ICU. WHY WE ARE STAYING APART:
===============
Why do we need to shut places where people group?
Remember this: VIRAL LOAD
There will be a lot about this. Why is it important?
With this virus, the amount of virus in your blood at first infection directly relates to the severity of the illness you will suffer. This isn’t unusual - HIV management is all about reducing viral load to keep people alive longer. BUT it’s very important in COVID-19.
So if you are in, say, a pub or religious building or entertainment venue with 200 people and a large number don’t have symptoms but are shedding, you are breathing in lots of droplets per minute and absorbing a high load of the virus. In a crowded space. They become ill over the next 48 hours. You then three days later wonder why you can’t breathe and end up in hospital. You’d decided because you were young and healthy it wasn’t going to be a problem. Wrong.
Fortunately but unfortunately because the elderly are isolating quite well, the initial UK data suggests that all age groups above 20 are almost equally represented in ITUs in England. Most of the cases are in London but the wave is moving outwards.
This means that being under 60 and fit and well doesn’t seem to be as protective as we thought. Why? Viral load.
This may be skewed simply by the fact that too many Londoners didn’t do as asked and congregated in large groups in confined spaces and got a large initial viral load. They then went home and infected their wider families. Which is why, as London is overwhelmed, we need to shut everything down to save the rest of the UK. We are a week at most behind London.
Our sympathies go out to the families affected in London and the critical care teams battling right now to save as many as they can.
If I sit with one person and catch this virus, I get a small viral load. My immune system will start to fight it and by the time the virus starts replicating, I’m ready to kill it.
No medicines will help this process meaningfully hence there is no “cure” for this virus. All we can do is support you with a ventilator and hope your immune system can catch up fast enough.
If I sit in the same room with six people, all shedding I get six times the initial dose. The rise in viral load is faster than my immune system can cope with and it is overrun. I then become critically ill and need me (or someone of my specialty) to fix it instead of just being at home and being ok in the end.
THIS BIT IS IMPORTANT:
If you are a large family group, remember that by being ill and in the same room, you will make each other ill or “more ill”. If you get sick, isolate just yourself to one room and stay there. Don’t all sit in one room coughing. You will increase the viral load for all of you, reducing your survival rate.
A family of six people may produce double the droplets of a family of three in the same space. Maths is important.
If one of you is symptomatic, assume you are all shedding and make sure you keep some space.
Parents are getting it from their kids because no one is going to stop comforting their child (nor should they) so the parent gets a big hit as well as the child. I don’t think that can be helped.
REMEMBER: THINK ABOUT VIRAL LOAD
It could save your life or your child’s.
- it’s up to you now. We are preparing for the worst but we are hoping for the best from you. Please help us to help you. Stay home and take this seriously now before we need the army on the streets
bigyetiman
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Not too long at all Margaid. Ne'er a truer word spoken
Not sure I know of any D & T jobs going anywhere for your nephew, but if I do hear of one I will let you know
Not sure I know of any D & T jobs going anywhere for your nephew, but if I do hear of one I will let you know
Margaid
Well-known member
Thanks.
That’s really important Margaid thank
you. I’ve shared it on with family and on FB. Why doesn’t our Govt take time to explain this in those vacuous briefings every day, instead of just robotically repeating slogans and platitudes?
you. I’ve shared it on with family and on FB. Why doesn’t our Govt take time to explain this in those vacuous briefings every day, instead of just robotically repeating slogans and platitudes?
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There's so much research going on. particularly at existing vaccines. There is some evidence (but so far, not enough to be conclusive) that those vaccinated with the BCG (tuberculosis) vaccine have a higher survival rate when they get coronavirus. Now, they are also looking at the polio vaccine to see if that can be used for treatment, until a specific vaccine can be found.
Margaid
Well-known member
How long does the BCG last though? It's a long time since I had mine ...LadyA said:
Hen-Gen
Well-known member
Thanks for the paragraph Margaid. I didn’t know that.
rick
Active member
I heard some suggestion that Ivermectin might have an effect! Something about it preventing the virus from blocking antibody reaction when it enters a host cell (or something like that - from Australian research - highly speculative.) Two drops on the back of the neck and Bob's you Uncle!
bigyetiman
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If that was the case Rick we may all have to wear giant flea collars. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
