Soft shelled eggs

Hi Everybody, I have just completed the first worming using Flubenvet with no problems. When should I carry out the next worming? Also I would like to treat them for the prevention of lice, how often should I do that. I mix Diatome in with their bedding every week. And lastly which apple cider vinegar is best. I have looked on line and the selection is a bit baffling.

Kind Regards
Stanierman
 
Birds that have been very badly affected by worms may need a second treatment 3 weeks later, but normally every 4-6 months is adequate for hens kept in clean conditions. Hens with access to pasture which has had poultry on it for some time are more at risk because they will eat earthworms, which may have picked up chicken worm eggs from droppings in the soil and the hens can ingest these when eating the earthworms, thus completing the cycle as the worm eggs then hatch in the hen's gut. So if this is a risk, every 4 months is better. Also, chicken worms are more active in the warmer months, so if you treat the flock in the Autumn they should be OK until the Spring.
You can use Diatom in their dustbath, but possibly the most effective treatment if you actually see any lice eggs is to use louse powder, which I think is diatom plus an insecticide. A somewhat different kind is sold as redmite powder, under brand names such as Smite. It smells nice and can be used in the coop though many people recommend making it up into a slurry and painting it on, to reduce the risk of breathing in toxic dust.
The main thing to remember about ACV is to get the unrefined sort, as sold in agricultural stores etc, and not the poncy refined kind for humans from Waitrose which is supposedly less effective. However, use with caution - many of us on here don't use it at all, at least not routinely on healthy hens. It certainly won't kill worms, and like Vermex, any other alleged benefits are unproven. I once experimented by putting out two drinkers, one with a weak solution of ACV as directed on the bottle, and one with plain pure water. The flock ignored the ACV altogether and just drank the pure water. I concluded that forcing them to drink ACV might make them drink less than they would otherwise do, which could be dangerous in hot weather and also affect egg production. Also they clearly didn't like it. So I poured it down the drain and notched it up to experience.
So just to reiterate what I said the other day - healthy hens do not need any dietary supplements and they are in most cases a waste of money. Just my opinion, though.
 
All this advice has been very useful. I mixed up the flubenvet with the chickens feed, as per your instructions Marigold, on Tuesday. I have 6 hens and used 6 kg of pellets, well mixed up. I'm just wondering if they are going to eat that much feed in 7 days?? If they haven't do I just let them continue until it has all gone?? I am still giving them their 'greens' late afternoon, so hopefully the pellets will be eaten before then.

I'm aiming to worm them again around October.
 
You should get through about 3/4 of that in a week working on about 110g per bird per day. It's good to have some spare as there's usually a least a bit of wastage. The flubenvet will get diluted by any other food - its a matter of not giving the worms any respite from the dose in those 7 days so really greens are off the menu for the week.
I know, mine make a special point of looking disgruntled with the service during worming week. If you have a way of measuring 300mg then that would dose 100g of treats but it's very difficult to dose a cabbage!

Of course, 110g is just an estimate. Some will eat more and some less, roughly according to their size. The important thing is that everything they eat has the recommended dose of wormer in it (I think there’s a little margin for them finding other things but best kept to the minimum possible.)
 
If there's any left over, just top it up with plain pellets and let them finish it up, it won't harm them. They probably eat a bit more at the Autumn worming because the food is keeping them warm more than in summer (though with the weather this week they may not realise it's summer at all.) As Rick says, the main thing is to get enough into them each day for at least a week, as the worms hatch continuously, to deal with those that have hatched from eggs that day, hence the need to drip-feed the Flubenvet over a week, rather than give it in one big dose. And with really badly-affected hens, ( eg if taking on neglected rescues) this is the reason for a second treatment 3 weeks later, to mop up worms hatched from any remaining eggs.
I think a certain level of worms is normal in chickens, and won't badly affect them if kept low by regular worming and poo picking, but a heavy infestation will pull a bird down and leave her open to other health problems because of her depleted immune system. Also, her food is feeding the worms, so she may lose weight and certainly become less productive. This is why, whenever someone posts a hen health problem, the first question is usually 'When did you last worm your flock with Flubenvet?"
Rick is our worm expert, having devised his own way of sampling and testing his chicken poo under a microscope, to determine which kinds are present and in what numbers.

Well, a man has to have a hobby, doesn't he?
 
Hi Marigold and Rick,

Thanks for the prompt reply, When I finished the 7 day treatment I had about an extra days dosage left so I gave some of that mixed with the following days feed and the rest this morning. I bought some apple cider vinegar from the agricultural store where I get the layers pellets from. I don't give them the ACV every day but they seem to like it when I do. If their water does get a bit low I just top it up with plain water. I would say that I give them the ACV every 5 days or so. I didn't know how often I should be giving it, They seem to be OK with what I am giving them. I did buy some red mite powder from the same store as I got the ACV but there's no manufacturers name on the container. It does smell nice though!! How often should I be treating them against lice?

Again thanks for the advice I am sure that like me others are gaining knowledge from you all.

Stanierman
 
I agree with Marigold, if you never gave them ACV it wouldn't harm them, if you give them ACV every 5 days, 4 days or 3 days it won't harm them either, your choice really. Some people seem to see benefits from it, others don't, for the short period of time I once used it the amount of soft shell eggs I got went up but that like others positive experiences is just anecdotal. There is though no scientific evidence that it provides a benefit to chickens. The best defence against lice is a dust bath, make sure they have a nice dry soil area where they can deal with lice the natural way, if they dust bathe regularly they won't have lice.
 
Just read your reply Rick.....after I had given them more greens!!!!! Does that mean the worming won't be as effective??? No more greens now for the rest of the 7 days, or possibly 8 if the flubenvet feed isn't finished!
 
Hi Rbh,
If you started them on the wormer Tuesday evening and they have been eating it at what appears to be close to the normal rate, and they didn't have lots of greens for tea then you should be fine. Extending the treatment by another day would be fine. If they have been fussy about eating it (they can stage a go slow if they don't like something but have to give in after a couple of days) and if they have been pigging the cabbage to make up for it then start the 7 days from yesterday. You should have enough mixed.
 
HI everybody,

Thanks for all the previous advice. I now have another question:-- I normally wash the chicken coop out every two to three months using Poultry Shield. How often should I do the coop with it? If possible I try to do it when we have a warm day so that it dries before they go to bed at night.

Regards

Stanierman
 
Good Morning All,

I have recently come across something called NETTEX. I believe its something to do with keeping the droppings smelling sweeter. Have you any knowledge of this product. By the way, I am now getting 5 eggs a day from my 6 girls with the odd day when I get all 6 laying, so the advice you gave me is certainly working. Thank you all.

Regards

Stanierman
 
Hi Marigold,

I believe its something to do with sanitising the ground and the droppings.

Stanierman
 
There seems to be an awful lot of repackaging going on out there! Here is DEFRAs list of disinfectants

http://disinfectants.defra.gov.uk/Default.aspx?Module=ApprovalsList_SI

Its a pretty safe assumption that Stalosan F and Biodri contain (or are) the approved (commercial) BioVX.

Nettex ground sanitiser apparently contains Viratec P and is DEFRA approved but isn’t on the list. Probably because Viratec P is a branding of something else (it only seems to be in Nettex.)

I think I'll start bottling milk and marketing it as tea enhancer :)

P.S. I’ve only just started using these sanitiser powders recently on dinosaw's recommendation (that was Stalosan F but Red Barn Hens has been using Biodri and we concluded that it's the same stuff, as probably is the Nettex variety). It seems like a good idea for a covered run with limited space to discourage the nasties from building up. I cant help wonder what it does to helpful gut bacteria if its so effective against everything else but on the basis that dino's flock is doing very well and I cant say quite the same for mine lately then I’m going with the sanitiser (after all the best thing would be them free ranging over a wide area and not pooping in the same area all the time but that’s something I can't give them)
 
Even free ranging you will find that chickens consistently foul the same area unless you have a moveable coop. In theory my main flock have the run of nearly an acre, in reality they still spend most of their time either in their run or directly around it and I've never seen them more than 50m away from it. I wouldn't worry about whatever is in the stalosan, it doesn't kill them and it doesn't seem to harm them as far as I've ever seen, it certainly won't be more harmful than flubenvet.
 
I agree - but all the same, if you use an absorbent bedding such as Aubiose in the run, and pick up most of the poo daily, the floor will stay reasonably clean, won't smell, and will only need sanitising powder occasionally, perhaps when the level of Aubiose has gone down and is getting thin. Then use it before topping up with new bedding. Or use it at floor level after the occasional removal of all old bedding for an extra thorough (annual?) cleanup. I usually do this in Autumn and all the old bedding goes straight on the garden as a good mulch for the worms to take down over the winter. Good protection for tender plants as well.
I know I'm always banging on about keeping poultry in the simplest way, with the fewest tonics and chemicals, but I think this is another example of a useful product which really one doesn't need to go overboard about, or use very often, just to swell the coffers of some multinational company. Keep the run and coop clean by daily poo picking, if possible have a roof to keep things dry, and hygiene will largely take care of itself.
 
Hi Everybody,

During the last couple of days when we have had the hot weather the egg production has dropped from 4 to 2 eggs a day. Could this be the result of the hot weather. I have not come across this before, or could it be because on Monday I gave the coop a wash with Poultry Shield, but I made sure that everything was dry before I put their clean bedding in. Again I have never had a problem with previous washing of the coop!! By the way the coop and the run is under a Willow tree and although it does get warm in the coop and run by the time they go to bed it has cooled down considerably. I give the clean water every day and all the treats they get now is the odd cabbage.

NB We also dusted them against lice and red mites on Monday. Any connection?

Stanierman
 
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