Sneezing pekins - antibiotics?

E

elmdene

New member
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
198
Reaction score
0
I've had a terrible summer chickenwise - one of my cockerels was killed by his brother Dumpling, then Dumpling got (suspected) cocci, went downhill over a day and died. Then Myrtle had the same symptoms (lurid green watery poo) so I immediately treated all 3 remaining chickens with Baycox and wormed them. Myrtle perked up immediately but a few weeks later Sybil got the same symptoms so Baycoxed them all again and she recovered. Now, several weeks later, Sybil has been sneezing a lot. I started with ACV and garlic in their water but it has continued for nearly a week now. When Myrtle sneezed last night I got some Tylan from the vet and am treating all 3. There is no discharge, mucous or wheezing but Sybil is definitely a bit under the weather and wouldn't even eat warm mash this morning, although she was keen to get out in the garden. She also keeps burying her head in Basil's breast feathers, like a chick - does anyone know what this means? Both the girls are moulting at the moment and it's obviously really damp, so they may just have colds, but I'm a bit paranoid now and would feel a complete failure if I lost any more. Am I doing the right thing and is there anything else I should do? I am keeping Sybil in with the other 2 as she is very independent and feisty and I think putting her in a box by herself would just stress her out.
 
Our Victoria buries her head in Bottom's bottom feathers when she is cold, so I think she is cold especially as she is moulting. The insulation of the feathers arrives when they are almost complete. We have most of ours moulting at the moment. For a week or so they are very out-of-sorts. The new feathers coming out of the skin must be very uncomfortable judging by how sore the skin looks around them. We've had one TNN just stopped eating for a week and spent the day shivering in the coop.

Is there enough ventilation in the coop Elmdene? I know it is cold for them but they need fresh air as well.
 
Thanks Chris. Yes there is plenty of ventilation as it's a Framebow coop where the ventilation comes in below the eaves. However, now you come to mention it, after all the dry weather over the summer I somehow never got round to oiling the outside of the coop which was starting to get damp and leaking a bit in heavy rain. So a few weeks ago I put a tarpaulin over the top for a few nights when it was raining to stop them getting dripped on. It didn't block the vents at all but I suppose it could have cut down the airflow around them. So it could be all my fault. I have now sanded the coop down and put some oil on it (probably needs a bit more but waiting for a dry spell) but I'm also a bit concerned this may be trapping damp inside the timber. I'm trying to keep it in the sun (when it's out) and airing it during the day. Not sure what else I can do now, other than put a dehumidifier inside during the day when they are out and about - may even resort to this!
You are probably right about them being out of sorts because of moulting. Myrtle is amazingly perky though after the Baycoxing - like a different chicken. She used to seem sweet but dim and was always last everywhere, but now she is charging about and has taken over from Sybil who is normally a real alpha female and should, I'm sure, have been born a cockerel. Hopefully then, when Sybil's feathers have grown back and the Tylan has had effect, she will be back to normal. What is a TTN btw?
 
Transylvanian Naked Neck - look at the photo on Chris' post. I saw some at an auction and I'm afraid they give me the creeps.
 
Hmm yes - not quite as pretty as a pekin! Sybil seems, if anything, to be getting worse, despite the antibiotics. She's just sitting all huddled up and sneezing a lot (sometimes sounds more like a peep or a hiccup). She's still very keen on dried mealworms and corn, not so much on mash (which she usually loves) or pellets. I hope it's not cocci again, but her poo looks fine.
 
TNN's are an acquired taste I think. They are very graceful in their movements and so cute. Very easy to see if they are eating properly as their crop area is naked as well. We have the large fowl version for practical reasons, but bantams are the most popular and I prefer them as they are even cuter!

Sorry Sybil isn't improving Elmdene. I don't know what to suggest other than keeping her warm to give her the best chance. If her poo is fine it has to be a virus, so the antibiotics are just dealing with any secondary infection to give her chance for her immune system to fight the virus unhindered. We have been in the same situation with good results. Make sure she is drinking enough. 48 hours after the course of antibiotics is completed I would give her 5mL of probiotic natural yoghurt to help her digestive system restart, as antibiotics can kill off the gut flora. Select one with the most cultures in it -usually 3 or 4, but some have only one. Not a patch on Beryl's which claims to have a hundred or so, if I remember correctly. Which reminds me our Victoria needs some tomorrow. My fingers are crossed for Sybil.
 
Sybil is still looking pretty miserable and despite 5 days of Tylan is still sneezing, maybe not quite so much, but today also has a slight watery discharge from her nostrils. No wheezing as far as I can make out. She just sits all fluffed up with her head tucked in and isn't eating much so seems to be loosing weight, although she still rushes over for mealworms or corn which is a good sign. I am wondering now whether it could be Northern Fowl mite, having read a post on this recently. Her head and neck are often a bit scrawny and grey-ish. I sometimes put vaseline on (which she hates), and once (a few years ago) in desperation, treated her for scaley head mite which seemed to do the trick, but it's looking a bit dodgy again now. However, I've just inspected her vent and the skin seems quite crusty around this area. I'll look up the treatment for this (of course it's Sunday) but if anyone can add any advice - gratefully received.
 
I've thoroughly dusted her with diatom and will try and get some ivermectin tomorrow in case it is mite of any shape or form. I'm as certain as I can be that there isn't red mite and the other two are in rude health. I don't really want to throw chemicals at her but will try anything to get her healthy again.
 
Northern Fowl Mite form scabs on the surface, usually around the vent area Elmdene, but certainly not always. A spray with Frontline will sort them at 1.5mL per Kg bodyweight maximum dose. We usually run at 0.5 -1.0mL. The scabs, on close inspection, appear to move. And they are, because of the mite activity underneath. Problem is, as I'm sure you realise, once they get run down they are susceptible to a lot of things
 
Spoke to the vet this morning to get the Frontline. She says she thinks it could be a secondary infection because of the cocci, probably mycoplasma, and suggests another course of Tylan for 5 days. Too late to spray by the time I got the Frontline so will have to do it tomorrow, but..... looked at Syb's nether regions this morning and its now all caked in diatom so hard to see anything except dust and feathers. Should I clean it all off first and spray her vent area? She is only about 610g so that means about 75ml max, ie a spray and a half. Should I try to get it all over her, including her head, or just the affected parts (head and bum)? The vet says that when she is doing puppies she sprays it on her hand and then rubs it all over, but I would think it has to get to her skin so I don't want to get it on her feathers, or damage new feather shafts. I'm a bit nervous of using something so strong as I don't want to knock her back any more and I'm not 100% sure she has nfm. She sometimes perks up and runs about and eats and I think she's fine, but then she will sit all huddled up with her head tucked in and looking grey and miserable - definitely not her normal self and feathers pretty much grown back now so I don't think moulting is an excuse.
 
Hi Elmdene. At only half a kg, as you say it is only 0.75mL, or a spray and a half maximum. I certainly wouldn't rub it in with your hand as that will damage the feathers. NFM live under the scab and eat the flesh, so nothing she has been given yet would touch them. We only spray the affected area. I would not wash her but give her one spray near to the area. It will soak through the crust. Has she got scabs on her head as well? If so it must surely be NFM. I would apply near the head with a cotton bud to avoid the eyes. So spray into the lid. You could do that with all areas I suppose.

Our Leghorn Bantam cockerel had NFM. The only outward sign was he stopped crowing and stood looking miserable. It was only on close inspection we saw the scabs around the vent. The things travelled downwind and infested 3 more coops and we had a hell of a battle getting them all under control. The NFM arrived with migrating geese in late October, which is the risk time for UK as well. We moved over here in September and were worried about a lockdown of exports due to Newcastle disease or avian flu -the vet said we were probably just in time to miss these problems. So what I am saying Elmdene is that October is the time when I would expect NFM to arrive. What does the vet think about it?
 
Thanks so much for all your wise advice Chris. The vet hasn't actually seen Sybil as I don't want to stress her out (Sybil, not the vet) by taking her in the car if possible - last time I did that, Dumpling died on the way home. But she was cool about the Frontline being used for a chicken and it will certainly eliminate the possibility of any nasties making her feel unwell. Having said that, and after worrying all night about whether I should have brought her in last night as it was so cold, she seems much perkier today and was first down for food - much more like her normal greedy self. She often, especially at this time of year, looks a bit manky around her head - her head feathers are half grown (and now I am aware of this, do appear a bit greasy) and she gets a bit bald around her neck where her skin is a bit grey and flakey - not very attractive. I did treat her a few years ago when it got really bad with Johnson's Scaly Head Mite treatment (for budgies) which improved her a lot. She does have slightly scaly legs which I have also treated. The other two, Myrtle and Basil the cockerel, appear to be unaffected though and are fine.
I was surprised at how light they were though - in February 2011 both the girls were around 835 - 860g and now they are 610 - 615g. That can't all be feathers! They have pellets all the time as well as treats so I'm not starving them.
 
I'm at my wit's end now with what to do about Sybil. In the past 8 weeks she and the other two chickens have had 3 courses of Baycox, 2 courses of Tylan, and been wormed with Flubenvet. I have sprayed her vent region with Frontline and, this week, because of no signs of recovery, she has had 2 injections of Tylan as recommended by the vet, who said she thought she could be in a downward spiral of respiratory and gut infections due to being run down. However she is still quite lethargic, and tail down. Over the past 4 days I have had her indoors as it has been so cold and she was just sitting huddled up in the corner of the coop. She seemed to get perkier after the first Tylan injection, but then went a bit droopy again (the second one was given by a locum vet who stabbed her twice before she got the needle in so hopefully it went in the right place. Sybil was NOT happy). She is in a box indoors so I am putting her out with the other 2 each day to get her legs exercised and make sure they remember each other. She does have to go through a bit of a pecking order ordeal each time, poor thing, but I find that if I distract them with food it's not so bad. Sybil does peck around a bit at the food and has a little groom, but mainly she sits there huddled up. She does walk slowly and sometimes stumbles but this could be due to her legs not being used to it. Inside she seems not 100%, but a bit better - she peeps a bit (used to be a real squawker), eats ok and is quite curious, but I worry she's not getting enough exercise. Her breath can be a bit raspy sometimes but the vet said respiratory illnesses can scar the airways and cause this. At least she seems to have stopped sneezing. Her poos are small and a bit wet but no wonder with all the medicine she has had. I have some Beryl's Friendly Bacteria on order (never used it before - any tips?). So basically she seems almost too well to keep in (she doesn't seem to be about to die), but not well enough to put out, especially with this damp and the below freezing weather we are due at night this week. I don't feel I can give her any more medicine, poor little thing. She is supposed to be 3 and a half years old but I'm not sure. I'm pretty certain her behaviour isn't just because of the season - she is normally the alpha female and the other two seem to be fighting fit - in fact Myrtle woke me up this morning complaining very loudly that I hadn't brought their warm mash out yet! I feel that all I can do is keep Sybil inside until she completely recovers but it seems to be taking a very long time. Maybe she has heard about Bottom and wants to be a house chicken too?! Anyway - as usual, any advice would be very much appreciated - thanks.
 
Hello Elmdene. Poor Sybil. As the vet says there can be residual damage after a respiratory infection. Think you have hit her with all that's available and agree there is nothing more to do apart from wait. We gave ours Beryl's. Problem we had was it arrives in a chilled packet that has to be signed for. We were out at the time so it was redelivered warm the next day and I wasn't sure how effective it then was. However their digestion improved noticeably so it must have been OK. If you saw the state Bottom was in and how he is now you would be staggered at the powers of recovery a chicken has. He threw a big tantrum yesterday because we wouldn't give him more apple and I had to put him to bed to calm him down!
 
Thanks Chris. Very sadly Sybil just died in my arms. I felt so helpless. She was much quieter this morning, only ate a little and then seemed to be having fits. I picked her up and held her and she would drop off to sleep and then suddenly come to again with a jump, but it was clear she was on the way out. Her heart seemed very strong until the end when she had another longer seizure and just went. Her breath was quite raspy but if it was a respiratory illness I can't think what else could have been done further than the Tylan shots. She was such a big character - the noisiest and the greediest and always leading the others around the garden with Basil trotting behind pretending he was in charge. I'm starting to feel a bit of a failure with chickens - only 2 left now...
 
very sad Elmdene. Sometimes a combination of infections is just too much for them, very distressing for you but you really did everything you possibly could for her :(
 
I am soo sorry :( I wrote you a long message yesterday but it doesn't seem to have uploaded.
Sometimes you just need to let them go and know that you did all you could. Some you save and rejoice at having won the battle, but you can't win the war and some just decide its time to go and whatever you do, they just fade away. You'll never know what killed her, but could have been a tumour or something internal and nothing to do with her breathing.
I've lost 5 now and the heartbreak never gets any better. She had a lovely life and that's what counts :)
My advice now, would be to use the Beryl's as soon as it arrives to give your other girls a pick up and help them cope with the loss too. I'd also act now and get 2 more chooks so you're never left in the position of having one lost and lonely girl - see my posts about Nancy.....
Nows a good time to introduce 2 to 2 chooks, long nights mean less daylight to fight in, they are less teratorial and means they can all cuddle up and keep warm in the cold winter.
Sybil will always be in your heart and memory xxx
 
Thanks for all your kind words and advice. I had been thinking of getting another couple of girls in the spring before Basil got too rampant but I guess you are right about them snuggling up in the winter together. Myrtle starts the night sitting almost underneath Basil at the moment. My only concern is that they may be carrying whatever killed Sybil. They do seem very well except they have taken to spending a lot of time sitting upstairs in their coop which they never used to even go into during the day up until recently. The weather is generally so awful at the moment I would probably do the same.
 
If it helps, my lot are spending hours upstairs - good point is there can't be a red mite problem otherwise they'd be out like a shot!
As long as they are alert in the mornings and coming down to eat, then again before they go to bed and have full crops, in my opinion, all is well.
I would use a good disinfectant that kills cocci, viruses and bacteria to clean out the house and run completely, then give the gang a couple of weeks quarantine to check how they are, then decide whether to restock... You should be able to get some mature /pol at this time of year that are old enough to be less prone to the chick type infections and more in line with a cockerels attentions, but always the risk you take.
Never had a cockerel, so may be speaking out of turn here......
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top