Not Bumblefoot but what?

chrismahon

chrismahon

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Hello everyone. We have one hen with a peculiar problem with her feet. On the pad she had what looked like an infection which I thought was bumblefoot -an impaction wound. She was limping and got taken inside for examination. I cut away the 'scab' to find cream coloured fibrous tissue and no puss or infection. When I had removed it all there was a hole in her pad about 8mm across and 6mm deep. We packed it with teatree cream and bandaged it up. It was regularly inspected and slowly the depth decreased. 3 months later and I had another look. The original foot hole has now got larger diameter but remained shallow. There is now another 'hole', smaller than the original, growing on the other foot pad. None of the other 12 hens from the same parents have anything like this. In fact none of any of our hens have anything like this. The closest is an old cream legbar who has fibrous tissue growth on the surface of the pad. Any ideas? She is otherwise healthy and very mobile, no limping.
 
I have no Idea what this might be, but i think that you should consult an avian vet, preferably one who specifies in chickens.
 
I've had a couple of hens over the years that have had an unusual looking pad that seems to cause no problem to the bird but looks unsightly - I guess a bit of a growth. Can you post a picture of this?
 
Hi Tim,
Just found another from the same Wyandotte hatch. Just a small patch at the moment. The original hen's feet are becoming nice and soft so carefully cutting the stuff away is benificial to her. Our soil, just where these hens are, is full of lime and soot so I wonder if that has triggered it? Will attempt photos in due course.
 
Update on the 'not bumblefoot'. It is definately not bumble foot and I am pretty certain it is a verruca. Why? Because little Minnie 7 has both, one of each on each foot. Dug out what I thought was one which bled immediately -was a scab over an earlier wound (she is inside with a respiratory infection so can keep it clean until it heals). We have a lot of glass fragments and rusty nails in the soil. The other one looked like an inverted wart; a wart which has grown inwards. Dug out fibrous cream coloured 'roots' to a depth of 10mm. Whilst the 'scab' is only 5 mm diameter it widens as it goes inwards. A squeeze of the pad brings more roots into sight. The previous hen has two 'verrucas'. The initial one appeared to reduce but has now grown again. The second has gone completely. It is a viral attack from something on the ground according to web info on verrucas in humans. Several hens have them on one side of the Orchard -none on the other. Only two have grown sufficiently to noticably inflate the pad, to the extent that walking is mildly affected. Photos still on the way -too busy with red mite at the moment.
 
Minnie is fully recovered but Jasmine now has a very bad one on her foot. I know for certain it is a verruka because its appearance and because of the smell -it is the same as athletes foot. Some say these are caused by a virus but they manifest themselves as a fungus. These can just go on their own apparently but I dug out Jessica's a few months ago. Some of the root went sideways and I couldn't get to it. It has now grown there and errupted from the side of her pad. So I have spent nearly an hour digging out as much as possible again. Human websites suggest tea tree cream which we have used with great success on all the cases thus far, so we've packed both holes with it and will see how it goes. The bandages upset her more than the verruka !!
 
I had a little hen with this, vet gave her an antibiotic jab and we soaked the foot in warm salt water with savlon then put some Calendula cream on it and bandaged it with a foam dressing and vet wrap for a week or two, peeled off the dead skin and left her to it once she was putting weight on it again. it almost looked like a corn.
 
here's a photo of her with her bandage. :D
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c119/kameelan/P1010885.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c119/kameelan/P1010882.jpg


sorry apparently the forum doesn't like my photos so i can't post them as images... i've resized them twice under 400pixels wide and it still will not post them!! so check the links i guess... :roll:
 
Aw, poor thing, I can't do a bandage as neat as that on my 7 year old son never mind a wriggling chook!
She's pretty girl what is she?
 
Rang the vet anyway and she immediately said "don't you mean bumble foot"! She promised to talk to a chicken specialist in another practice to see if they had any ideas. In the meantime little Jasmine (a buff laced Wyandotte) will be very carefully monitored. Poor little girl. When she was a chick her mum scratched the flesh off the side of her face -obviously by accident. There was nothing between the eye and the neck when I saw her. Immediate reaction was to dispatch her immediately, but she seemed perfectly happy with her sisters so I held off. Two days later and all healed over. A year later and she now has half an ear and some feathers that stick out but otherwise is fine. Likes to perch on your arm and not be held, so she gets carried around like a Parrot.
 
---I had one on a little pekin hen. Eventually I removed a sebaceous cyst intact in its wall , after which it all healed up . On first couple of tries I was just removing pieces of fibrous tissue , if its going to work the whole sac needs to come out-- best left to a vet! Ros
 
podstable said:
---I had one on a little pekin hen. Eventually I removed a sebaceous cyst intact in its wall , after which it all healed up . On first couple of tries I was just removing pieces of fibrous tissue , if its going to work the whole sac needs to come out-- best left to a vet! Ros
Click to expand...


This is why i did the warm soaks to help get the dead tissue out of the way and soften it up so it comes out naturally with poultice. (http://www.nutrecare.co.uk/Product-1588/Wound-and-First-Aid-Care/Animalintex)

this also has some good info on treatment of bumble and the like... http://www.thepoultrygarden.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4930
 
Vet phoned today. Spoke with the Minster Practice. They have only dug out verrucas in cattle and have frozen tiny ones on show chickens. Thought digging one out of a chicken a problem because theuir feet are so small. Job for a craftsman then using a very fine modelling knife. Got some more out from Jasmine's foot that had squeezed into the hole left from the last look -quite a big bit as well. Swabbed with a Neam solution which is good on Fungus before repeating the fill with Teatree cream. Vet agrees with my approach. Smell of athletes foot has gone and no sign of infection. Walking OK now but will continue to keep a close eye on her.
 
You could also try using a small piece of 'animalintex' poultice to draw stuff out, you can apply it warm, or cold and bandage it in place. You can buy it from any good feed/equestrian store. It works really well on bumble foot or corns etc. ;)
You might find it useful to find out what's causing them, it's unusual to get quite a few birds suffering from them at the same time, it may be worth sending a soil sample off to be annalised? or try lowering perches and ramps to prevent the birds jumping down quite so far.

JubesXX
 
jubilee said:
You could also try using a small piece of 'animalintex' poultice to draw stuff out, you can apply it warm, or cold and bandage it in place. You can buy it from any good feed/equestrian store. It works really well on bumble foot or corns etc. ;)
You might find it useful to find out what's causing them, it's unusual to get quite a few birds suffering from them at the same time, it may be worth sending a soil sample off to be annalised? or try lowering perches and ramps to prevent the birds jumping down quite so far.

JubesXX
Click to expand...


great minds, read my post above! :D
 
Some of the birds affected haven't got perches. The area they are on is ground that 5 cottages stood on with little gardens. They were demolished in 1930's and then the area was used as a dump by the local tennants until 1980 when it was levelled and grassed. There is a lot of debris in the soil. Pieces of glass and nails but none have damaged toes just these growths on one of their pads. Some are tiny and Jasmines and Bumble's are quite large. Bumble's was removed 6 months ago and the pad, although still noticably larger than her other, feels soft/flexible inside so has been left alone. Bumble's sister hasn't got any and they have no perch.
Will look into this 'animalintex' when I am next at CWG.
 
chrismahon said:
Some of the birds affected haven't got perches. The area they are on is ground that 5 cottages stood on with little gardens. They were demolished in 1930's and then the area was used as a dump by the local tennants until 1980 when it was levelled and grassed. There is a lot of debris in the soil. Pieces of glass and nails but none have damaged toes just these growths on one of their pads. Some are tiny and Jasmines and Bumble's are quite large. Bumble's was removed 6 months ago and the pad, although still noticably larger than her other, feels soft/flexible inside so has been left alone. Bumble's sister hasn't got any and they have no perch.
Will look into this 'animalintex' when I am next at CWG.
Click to expand...

I doubt it's an puncture injury. more likely to be a fungal infection from something rotting in the ground.
 
If you could re-locate the birds for a few weeks in temorary pens, and treat the ground with lime. You get it from garden centers or builders merchants, lightly dig the soil so it's loose, sprinkle the lime on, water it in with a sprinkler/hose pipe, then turn the soil again, leave to dry for a few days, then after a week the birds can go back in, alternatively, you can get ground sanitizer from Net-tex, and do the same. It's a bit more expensive than lime, but both work to clean the ground. It certainly wouldn't do any harm. ;)

JubesXX
 
Thanks Jubilee. We have lime but the area is about 600 square metres. All the old mortar from the buildings was lime based so the soil is quite well dosed. Now you mention it perhaps the trigger is the lime itself and its something that lives in lime rich soil, as the other side of the orchard doesn't have rubble so close to the surface, being about a foot down.
 
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