Mites or Lice

[cuwiar]

Lites or Mice? 07

I'm hopefully getting to the bottom (haha!) of the feather pecking, weight loss issue. I've discovered that the girls have either mites or lice. They are small but easily visable, dark cream/brown, slow moving (generally) and on both feather shaft and next to the skin. They seem to be everywhere on the birds but there were more towards the back end and around the fluffy bloomers.

It was something that Chris said in another post about hens pecking each others' feathers because they see lice moving, and the way the feathers were starting to look a bit 'mangy' that made me re-examine. And maybe Eb has been pulling out her own feathers?

I've been giving them a monthly (an obviously ineffectual!) dust with Hydrophan Farmyard Louse Powder which was recommended by the breeder we got them from and have for the time being given them a really thorough dust today with that and DE. They have had a really good coating (so now I'm worried about them breathing the dust, of course!) but was hoping for some advice on best course of action?

Should I be treating them with Ivermectin or should I just keep dusting regularly with the powder? Or, are there any better/alternative solutions?

 

[chrismahon]

We use the louse powder weekly on all if we spot any on one and that sorts the problem after a month. Johnsons flea spray (for cats and dogs) works for bad infestations -it contains Pyrethum so must not go onto broken skin. Last resort is Frontline spray we used on head/ neck lice, which are the worst. You have feather lice, which feed on the feathers and dead skin and are easy to eradicate with powder. Neck lice burrow into the feather and suck the blood from the base of the quill, killing the feather and driving the hens mad, so much so they will pull their own feathers out and welcome anyone else doing it for them!

 

[foxy]

I have a similar regime to Chris, only I don't tend to use powders, find them too dusty and difficult to get on top of a lice problem as the mode of action is slow. Certainly lice will cause irritation and possibly feather pecking.

I like Johnsons Mite Spray for Cage birds as it designed for birds, and very effective too.

In a serious infestation I would like Chris resort to Frontline, specially if I suspected Northern Fowl Mite. One note here is that Frontline is not licensed for poultry.

 

[Sue]

Could Ivermectin spot on be used to treat this?

 

[Bertie & The Chooks]

Could Ivermectin spot on be used to treat this?

If you can get the vet to prescribe it i guess. but it's off license for the treatment of lice.

As for using Permethrin, please be very careful with it if you have any other animals in you home. It's extremely toxic to cats in particular and can hurt other animals if ingested. I've seen many deaths and ill cats and dogs from incorrect use of Johnsons and Bob Martin products I personally do not like using it on animals and only treat surfaces. Louse powder or frontline spray should suffice. Please be sure you use the correct dose of Frontline.

 

[elmdene]

I can buy Ivermectin direct from my local 'chicken requisites' supplier - so no need for a prescription. I've only used it once though, and on a cockerel, as it doesn't sound very nice and the egg withdrawal period seems ridiculously long.

 

[Bertie & The Chooks]

I can buy Ivermectin direct from my local 'chicken requisites' supplier - so no need for a prescription. I've only used it once though, and on a cockerel, as it doesn't sound very nice and the egg withdrawal period seems ridiculously long.

yep, i don't recommend it. neither do most vets! hence why it's not licensed

 

[cuwiar]

Hi all, thank you, as ever, for all your advice. I dusted the girls again today with a mixture of Farmyard Powder and DE. I noticed quite a few more lice/mites near the surface and looked dead or at least very, very stil! So, hopefully the powder is working at present. It's also been quite a bonding experience!

I have bought some of the spray Foxy recommended but I'm a bit wary of using Permethrin. Is there an agg withdrawal with this product? No other animals in the house so no need to worry about that issue fortunately!

If these are feather lice and are feeding on feathers and dead skin would that account for a weight loss also? It makes sense that they are feeding on the feathers because some of them do look quite scraggly!

 

[Bertie & The Chooks]

Hi all, thank you, as ever, for all your advice. I dusted the girls again today with a mixture of Farmyard Powder and DE. I noticed quite a few more lice/mites near the surface and looked dead or at least very, very stil! So, hopefully the powder is working at present. It's also been quite a bonding experience!

I have bought some of the spray Foxy recommended but I'm a bit wary of using Permethrin. Is there an agg withdrawal with this product? No other animals in the house so no need to worry about that issue fortunately!

If these are feather lice and are feeding on feathers and dead skin would that account for a weight loss also? It makes sense that they are feeding on the feathers because some of them do look quite scraggly!

As it's not technically licensed in the use with poultry i would say do not use eggs. but i don't know how long... i can ask my mate who is a vet if you want?

 

[cuwiar]

If you wouldn't mind Steph, that would be a useful guidance point! I have thought about taking them to the vet myself but am hoping to treat it at home first.

Can you tell me if I need to get frontline from the vet and if there is an egg withdrawal with this too?

 

[Bertie & The Chooks]

If you wouldn't mind Steph, that would be a useful guidance point! I have thought about taking them to the vet myself but am hoping to treat it at home first.

Can you tell me if I need to get frontline from the vet and if there is an egg withdrawal with this too?

http://poultrykeeper.com/poultry-medication/poultry-medication/frontline-for-lice-and-mites.html

I will ask her about egg withdrawal, but if you are going to need Frontline by prescription for your chickens, you can ask them then as well. Please do not use the over the counter frontline as it is not the correct dosage for chickens and you need really to seek the advice from a vet with Frontline. Especially since it is POM-V(prescription vet only) and off license.

I will send her a text now and post when she replies. She's at work atm.

 

[chrismahon]

Frontline 'spot -on' for cats and dogs is too high a dose for chickens. Two of our friends Orpingtons died after treatment with it by a vet. Frontline spray has to be prescribed by a vet. Lowest dose is 6 sprays per kg bodyweight for cats so we went in at 3 sprays per Kg and it did the job. I wouldn't risk a higher dose. There was a post about this 6 months ago and I seem to remember the spot-on entered the bloodstream and had a 28 day withdrawal. The spray had no withdrawal because it was surface treatment only, but the spray cannot be administered within 28 days of the last treatment as well. I remember because you would expect spot-on to be the one that needed a vet to prescribe, not the other way round!?!?

 

[Bertie & The Chooks]

My friend says it's 7 day egg withdrawal for Permethrin. But says best advice for Frontline would be to ring Merial, the manufactures, for advice if concerned. She does not have personal experience using FL on poultry, but has heard of it being used. So maybe a vet whom has prescribed it off license would have better advice. 30 days would be a safe bet.

Chris is correct about spray/spot on, this is why i advised not to use the over the counter treatment so there was no confusion. Your vet would not prescribe or recommend the spot on treatment for your chooks only the spray. If you have any concerns of her advice please let me know and i can speak to you privately and give you her RCVS reg details. Hope this helps.

 

[foxy]

I can buy Ivermectin direct from my local 'chicken requisites' supplier - so no need for a prescription. I've only used it once though, and on a cockerel, as it doesn't sound very nice and the egg withdrawal period seems ridiculously long.

yep, i don't recommend it. neither do most vets! hence why it's not licensed

Just a note: A lot of avian vets do actually recommend Ivermectin for poultry, especially for scaly leg mite which is difficult to eradicate. I can't remember the exact dose, this would need checking by the vet.

 

[Emchicks]

I use Ivermectin from the vets for my birds, think it's 0.7ml I use for large fowl and 0.3 for bantams, I have found that it doesn't seem to work against Northern Fowl mite though which I quickly found out about after a show!!
Em

 

[Bertie & The Chooks]

I can buy Ivermectin direct from my local 'chicken requisites' supplier - so no need for a prescription. I've only used it once though, and on a cockerel, as it doesn't sound very nice and the egg withdrawal period seems ridiculously long.

yep, i don't recommend it. neither do most vets! hence why it's not licensed

Just a note: A lot of avian vets do actually recommend Ivermectin for poultry, especially for scaly leg mite which is difficult to eradicate. I can't remember the exact dose, this would need checking by the vet.

yes, many avian vets use it, but most vets are not avian vets!(that was the point i was making sorry if confusing ) the licensing is there for a reason because they don't have enough research on it to support it or have too much not to support it. i don't recommend it because i don't have any experience with it personally with birdies. but i am not the knowing all seeing all :ugeek: :lol: (though i do wish i was sometimes :lol: )

 

[chrismahon]

I was told by an old time breeder that he lets feather lice exist in small numbers on all his birds because they kill Northern Mite. He dusts heavily to kill the lice before a show and when he gets back from showing he allows the birds to become reinfested slightly, controlling the level with infrequent dusting. All sounds a bit woolly to me but he swears by it. Anyway we don't show so all lice are treated accordingly.

 

[Bertie & The Chooks]

I was told by an old time breeder that he lets feather lice exist in small numbers on all his birds because they kill Northern Mite. He dusts heavily to kill the lice before a show and when he gets back from showing he allows the birds to become reinfested slightly, controlling the level with infrequent dusting. All sounds a bit woolly to me but he swears by it. Anyway we don't show so all lice are treated accordingly.

ick, you're giving me the creepy crawlies!! 11

 

[cuwiar]

Thanks AGAIN for all the advice! Still going with the dusting method at the minute and hopefully that will be all I need to do but I'll go to the vet if things get worse.

Interestingly the girl who outwardly seems to be least affected seems to have the most lice!

If the lice are feeding on feathers and dead skin would this be affecting their weight?

 

[chrismahon]

No it won't Cuwiar. Dead skin so shedding anyway and the feathers just get a bit tatty. Big problem is when they lay eggs. These are stuck in clusters at the base of the feathers are are a devil to get off. They do look a mess and attract dirt and are usually around the vent area. With them hatching and crawling about it just promotes feather pecking in that area.