hens loosing feathers

Did the vet actually say that there was no evidence of infestation, Dye? There's a particular type of dirty smudging around the feathers which may indicate Northern Fowl Mite, (if you know what to look for!) but Depluming Mite can be hard to diagnose without skin scrapings, I believe.
We're looking forward to your pics, make sure they are close up and show whether any feather shafts are trying to grow. Also have a look round their necks as well as tummy and bums.
 
dye29 said:
ye i do think theres something wrong like you say ill take few to vets , ive been watching them for past week and there eating each others feathers also mounting one another , ive raised the protein with only layers pellets , meal worms ,sun flower seed, and boiled eggs .

Can you remember if there's ever been a day last summer, when you got 13 eggs, Dye? I'm interested in them mounting each other - how many of them are doing this? Is it at all possible that you've got some young cockerels in there?
 
yes regular always nearly had 13eggs . just checked all hens to no black marks ect on them they look ok i got photo of the worst one to be fair now they most look like there healling again only couple look like the photo , iv prob done a better thing today ive opened there run and let then have free run of garden aswell thats prob size of swimming pool as theres no veg in it at moment might leave them free roaming see if it helps , do you think it would be good idea to feed them game bird pellets as there higher in protein
 
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this is the worst hen of all i hope im worrying overnothing ive just replaced water today with cider vinagar mix as read up makes there blood taste horrible and helps cold ect
 
Poor girl, she does look rather uncomfortable, doesn't she?
You can see feathers coming through in pin, which is hopeful, and the red colouring could be a response to being naked in the cold winter weather. If the vet didn't see any evidence of infestation, then maybe the most likely explanation is what they're eating and their living conditions. Hybrids are specially bred to keep going on laying eggs throughout at least their first 18 months of life, after which egg production does begin to drop off, so a farmer will then cull them and get younger ones. But they can only do this out of doors through the winter if they have the sort of diet which keeps their energy up, and are kept in conditions which give them some shelter from wind and rain. Chickens are hardy outdoor birds, and purebreds have largely adapted to outdoor life in exposed runs in winter by shutting down egg laying and using the time and energy to replace their feathers, when necessary. Hybrids are usually bred to be farmed indoors, where it's warm and dry, and so it takes more of their energy to keep warm out of doors, but they still try to keep going on egg laying. If they don't have the right quality of food, they can't keep their feathers in good shape as well as producing eggs. This may account for the fact that your hardier Sussex girls are unaffected by the feather loss, and it's only the hybrids who are naked.

If they were mine, I would change their pellets to a recommended brand, well-known for its high quality. That means Dodson and Horrell, Smallholders, or Garvo, possibly Marriages (although they produce two grades of layers pellets, one of these is the Economy brand, and it would be best to get the other, better-quality type.) Then I would equip their run with two large plates supported off the ground on blocks, so they don't eat off the muddy ground where there may be worm eggs, and would mix a warm damp mash every day from pellets and a few high-protein treats such as sunflower seeds etc. I would get some Nettex Mineral supplement powder and mix this into the mash, as if you feed it on dry pellets it doesn't stick to them - thats why you need a mash. Don't think about changing to game bird mix, these hybrids have to have layers pellets as they need the high levels of calcium to support eggshell quality. A good brand will have all the other minerals and vitamins that laying hens need, and the Nettex powder will give them the extra boost of minerals and probiotics they require to return to full health and feathering. Go easy on the cider vinegar - if you use too strong a mix it will make them reluctant to drink, and this will be very harmful to them. Personally I never use the stuff, my hens don't like it, they would choose plain water when offered two drinkers, one with, one without.

Free ranging in the garden would be good, so long as it's safe from predators such as foxes. The other thing I would do is to fix willow screening round three sides of the end of the run where the feed is kept, using cable ties to fix it to the mesh. I've found it's easy to attach, makes a good windbreak, and will provide filtered shade in summer as well. I understand you can't do much about roofing such a large run, but if you could give them an area at the sheltered end where they could get out of the wind and rain, they would use less energy keeping warm and dry. You recently posted about muddy conditions - were you able to do anything about this? with any sort of skin condition, a big dustbath under cover and nice and dry would be very helpful. In north Yorkshire, you must get the worst the winter can throw at them, and comfortable conditions would help them a lot.
Then just sit back and wait for the days to get longer and warmer, and hopefully the feathers will grow back and egg production will increase.
 
That looks just like a problem I had before - discussed in this thread http://poultrykeeperforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9895&hilit=vent+gleet

Never really understood what caused it but it went away finally and didn't come back. It wasn't 'vent gleet' - that was just a guess , there was some pecking going on at the time but more related to the hen in question laying shell-less eggs. (though some runny poops was also a thing that was happening at the time - maybe related, maybe not.)

I did find that unscented nappy cream applied thinly did sooth the area but eventually it just went away shortly before new pin feathers coming through across the whole area - a mystery!

... anything that you apply to a chicken - antiseptic, nappy cream etc - mustn't contain a local anesthetic. Lots of creams etc sold for human use do so be careful.

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Dye, what you feed them won't make any difference as long as they are pecking each others feathers out as soon as they grow. Get yourself enough bumpa bits (just google them) for all of your hens and fit them for two weeks and see if there is any improvement.
 
theres a good video on Youtube about fitting bumpa bits, see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmoGkyDgmdk

As the video explains, you also need a pair of circlip pliers, and fitting the bits is a two-person job.
Omlet do a set of 20 bits and a pair of pliers https://www.omlet.co.uk/shop/chicken_keeping/anti_pek_and_healing/13292/bumpa_bits_and_pliers_value_set/?aid=POULTRYK

and there's more info on fitting them on the Omlet site including soaking the bits in hot water to soften them before fitting and making sure you get them in the right hole in the hen's nostrils. The reviews are helpful as well.

also, there's another thread on here, with some helpful pics by Chris, about his experience with bumpa bits. http://poultrykeeperforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7408

You could try a 3-pronged approach in January;
- fit bumpa bits
- improve nutrition, so they can grow feathers at the same time as laying eggs
- perhaps provide more shelter from wind and rain in the run.
 
Re Cider vinegar - I haven't looked right back through the thread but whatever you do, don't put cider vinegar in galvanized drinkers. It reacts with the metal.
 
hi all thanks for all your help and suport upto now marigold i have upped there nutriants and they do have a good spot to shelter from rain and wind but i will 100% order some bumpa bits as myself im sure the main prob is the hens pecking as i keep them imaculately clean , thank you everyone for all the help and advise i will update after i have trialed bumpa thanks .
 
I know you're doing brilliantly at looking after them, Dye. I hope that, if the bits work and once they've had a chance to regrow their feathers, they'll forget about eating other people's bumfluff!
 
ye i think they will , i did think of locking the hens in shed fully for a week in darkness then let out a hour a day to strech see if it would nock them off lay and concentrate on growing feathersbut i couldnt be that cruel
 
I don't think that would do any good at all, Dye. The thing that gets them back into active lay is the way the days get steadily longer after the equinox in December. Daylight, especially sunlight, stimulates their pituitary gland to return to the breeding season, ie, full feathers and egg laying. So shutting them up in darkness would have the opposite effect, and probably make them stop laying at all, besides being cruel, as you say. So this time of year it's good to give them as much light as possible, try the bumpa bits when they come, and concentrate on feeding them to increase their ability to grow feathers and lay eggs.
It sounds as if you might have problems catching 15 hens in a big run. (It'd make a good video, though!) You could try arranging a couple of seats ready, next to the coop for you and your helper, and going down after dark with a flashlight to pick them off the perch one by one, when they're asleep. Would save a lot of chasing around and stress, for you as well as them!
 
just got my 30 bumpa bits and not to happy there hard to fit ive used all 30 and only managed to do 6 hens so had to order more they easy break and when you think its fit to hen good the bloody thing shakes it off
 
You need to warm them in hot water (40C) and use external circlip pliers Dye29. Positioning is very important. View the previously posted links.
 
Yes, view all the links in previous posts, and the Youtube video, Dye. There are photos of the hens' beaks showing you which part of the nostrils the bits have to go in. If you put them into what looks like a hole, but is actually a fold of skin below the hole, they fall off. And as Chris says, get the plastic really warm and soft. The Omlet guide to fitting them includes this paragraph;

"I have put the wavy bit in the middle inside the hen's beak (like a horse's bit, hence the name), and the two prongs in her nostrils like a stethoscope. The lower beak thus passes through the hole.

You have to pull the nostril prongs out a long way sideways as you fit the bit, and push the prongs quite hard into the nostrils. There is a proper hole where it fits well, and a thing that looks like a hole that isn't. The proper hole is the one at the back. If you put a bumper bit on properly, there is no way that a hen could get it off.

The secret is not to be too gentle. Remind yourself how vicious the hen has been, and do it quickly but very firmly, no nonsense.

You need two people. One to hold the hen very still, and the other to prise open the beak. You have to be firm and say "This hurts me more than it hurts you", and get on with it. But you can't do it on your own: I tried and failed. With a second person, it was easy."


It sounds as if you're realising why using bits is the last resort for most people, though! Have you got someone who can hold the bird for you, so you have both hands free to do the job? Well done to get 6 of them fitted. I expect you'll get the knack once you've done a few more.
 
ye when i was doing them i noticed some fit lovely and most didnt got 50 on order so ill try again , is the middle part suposed to break because everyone did with me only split dead centre
 
Sorry, there's something I just don't understand here. Chickens can get into the habit of pecking bum feathers, yes. Its a pretty dangerous habit as it draws attention to vents and any stray egg or even the act of laying. I'm not saying that isn't happening so some extent. But how do they peck them off the base of the keel unless they take it in turns to lay on their backs in submission?! (or preen them off themselves maybe?)
I really do think the red skin is just something that happens when chicken skin is exposed for any length of time, for some reason. When I've seen it it hasn't looked inflamed or broken - just red and when the feathers have started to grow out the redness has quickly diminished - first around the follicles and the new feathers grown without issue. If it had been constant pecking that had kept them at bay until that time then why would the pecking suddenly stop and let a forest of pins come through at once?
But you say they are pecking each other Dye, and not just pecking order stuff so... they shouldn't be doing that. Don't know why they make the bits weak in the middle - that is the place they break every time isn't it - like they might be designed to wear out there if left unattended maybe?
I'm not saying I'm right or anyone else is wrong - I just don't get it in this instance.
 
Well, yes, I agree, this type of feather loss has been puzzling us all ever since October, Rick, when Dye first mentioned it. Like you, I thought it was a strange area for all the hens to be losing feathers, hence I assumed it was some sort of infestation. However, if Dye can manage to fit bumpa bits on all of them, at least that will give an answer to the feather pecking theory. If no improvement by February, then it has to be something else. As they're first-year hybrids,and only losing feathers underneath, we can rule out normal moulting. It was a pity Dye's vet couldn't give a more informed opinion.

i've never tried fitting bumpa bits - are all of them inclined to break in the middle, or is it possible that Dye is getting faulty ones from his supplier?
 
The middle bit wears out against the beak- takes about three months though. They can split there if the bit is opened too far, in which case they are scrap. But warming the plastic gently, as previously said, makes the plastic a little more pliable. Essential to be using external circlip pliers as well. They are positioned above the beak when the bit is being fitted.

Presumably these hens have perches at night and are not just roosting on the floor and in contact with something abrasive or chemical?
 
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