Fox HOUND attack

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Margaid

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Had a 'phone call from my friend who is looking after my Welsummers. A neighbouring farmer has been "puppy walking" for the local hunt and a few days ago the hounds escaped and reached my friend's house. The hounds were spotted quite quickly and although they scattered the hens none of them were injured. Apparently quite a row followed and the farmer was told that the hounds should be returned to the hunt kennels as she didn't want a repeat performance.

Unfortunately the farmer took no notice, and arriving home from work this evening she found the 2 hounds rampaging around in the field where the hens' enclosure is. Although the enclosure is electric poultry netting the hens free range during the day. The hounds had obviously been there for some hours and had flattened the electric netting.

As far as we can tell one of my Welsummers, the small Houdan cockerel, one of the Favarolles and one of the hybrids are missing. One Houdan cockerel, the last of her original Houdan hens (the good, fertile layer) and one of the hybrids are dead. The other hens are all in shock.

The hounds were shut up in the stock trailer and calls made to several of the hunt Masters. The Huntsman (kennel man) was told in no uncertain terms that if the hounds weren't collected in 2 hours, they wouldn't be there to collect.

It's all very well being told that one will be recompensed but where is she going to get another good Houdan hen? She's been breeding them for a couple of years but there are few breeders in the UK and many of the birds are related.

I don't ride, but have always defended the right of people to ride to hounds although we don't allow the field (that is the horses and riders) on our land - mainly because they would cut the ground up too much. We have told the hunt in previous years that if the hounds come on to our land then they can let them run, rather than trying to call them off.

That will change when I get the girls back here. The hunt will be told that any hound seen anywhere near the hens will be shot.

So it's up early to go and look for the missing birds; I just hope they have found some shelter as it's hammering down and has been for the past hour.
 
How upsetting and Exasperating for You!! I hope you find the missing birds? Good luck.
 
That's really terrible for you and for your friend. Had the farmer realised the hounds were missing? How did the hunt react, at finding that their puppies were roaming out of control for the second time? Personally I have no time for fox hunting though in this case it would seem that the farmer is the main culprit, for not taking his responsibilities seriously. I wonder if the hunt knew about the first breakout, and the request to remove the puppies? One time is perhaps understandable, but twice is inexcusable.
I really cannot understand why people are allowed to breed packs of hounds in order to go out with a mob of riders and crash over the countryside, using their hounds to hunt other animals in ways which would be rightly condemned if my dog behaved like that in a local park. If I were your friend I'd be getting maximum publicity for this in the local press, radio and TV.
So sorry about the hens, all of those poor birds, as well as you and your friend.
 
Could definitely be worth contacting an anti hunting campaign group to get a little publicity and help add weight to their objections to the whole "sport"
 
The hunt master is responsible for the dogs, and their activities.

Complaints in the first instance should be made to them. If there is no satisfactory response then take it up with the MFHA, detailing what happened, damage, any offer of compensation etc...

Here is a link to their code of conduct..

http://www.mfha.org.uk/about-the-mfha/codes-of-practice/code-of-good-hunting/
 
Failing that some energisers give quite a kick, ours pushes out around 10,000watts on full power, would have no trouble training puppy hounds! Not enough to hurt but certainly enough to dissuade a large dog we have found in our experience when a full grown Akita tried to run through it.
 
Thanks for all your messages of support. Attacks by foxes are an unavoidable hazard but one doesn't anticipate attacks by hounds when there is no meet.

An update on the hens: checking the hens at 8 am we found another Houdan hen had died overnight. The Favarolle, young Houdan cockerel and my Welsummer were still missing. We saw a Houdan that had obviously been out all night inside the electric enclosure, then couldn't find it.

I've just come back and there is still no sign of the Favarolle or my Welsummer but the young Houdan cockerel was there. Anita's husband had spotted him outside the fence and lifted him over. The cockerel is VERY subdued. I thought we had another dead Houdan but she scuttled off when I went to check, but I picked her up and put her back where she should be.

So the count so far is 1 Calder Ranger, 1 older Houdan hen, 1 of the April hatched Houdan hens and the Houdan cockerel, who was just finding his feet so to speak, dead and 2 birds missing.

It isn't so bad for me as I've only had the hens since April and I will be able to find another breeding quality girl in due course. It is the loss of the Houdans which is heartbreaking as it's taken 10 yeare for Anita to get where she is now with the flock.

Once our builders have gone (OH's had to go out so I'm in charge) I'll go back and start searching the hedges. The Favarolle was brooding 2 eight week old chicks - Silkie/Houdan crosses so Anita thinks she would have stood up to the hounds. We're not really sure why there isn't a pile of feathers as the hounds would almost certainly have killed her unless she abandoned the chicks.

They farm about 100 acres, between two farmers who allow the hunt on their land. They only allow the hounds and the Master and huntservants to cross their land the rest have to go the long way round on the road, but I think they will be seriously reconsidering now.

To be fair to the hunt this wouldn't have happened if their pig headed neighbour had taken the hounds back to the hunt kennels after the incident on Sunday.

To answer your questions Marigold, no the hunt didn't know about Sunday and from what I've been told the first Master contacted didn't seem that bothered even though he was told that the hounds had to be collected within 2 hours. Anita's husband had to ring 2 other hunt Masters before the kennelman contacted them about collecting the hounds -3 1/2 hours after the first call. He wanted to leave them until morning, or get them back to the other farm but neither Anita nor her OH would stand for that so they were apparently collected about 10.30 pm.

Unfortunately life in the country isn't always simple - you never know when you might need a helping hand from your neighbour. Add to that the "responsible" farmer is my friend's son's employer and you can see that things are difficult for them. However I am more of a free agent although my loss is insignificant compared with Anita's.

Thanks for your comments Foxy, you have confirmed what my logic told me. I shall, I think, send a brief email to my contact at the hunt - she lets us know when they are hunting in our area. I shall however reserve my fire for when things become a bit clearer, ie I know whether I have 4 hens or 3, and also whether any more of Anita's birds die of shock.

I don't know how powerful the energiser is but apparently it looked as though one hound had pushed the other onto the netting as it was flat on the floor - and then shorting out of course. I wiil check mine and maybe think about getting a more powerful one. I am at least another mile and a half away form the puppy walking farmer so hopefully I will only have to contend with foxes. There is one less of those too as one ran across the road in front of me Tuesday night, then raced back out of the hedge and back across the road and I couldn't avoid it. It's broken the front skirt on the car and a couple of other small plastic bits - which is why I try not to hit them!

Sorry this is so long but it's whiling away the time until I can go and check the hens again.

I'll post again if there are any further develpoments.
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Went up yesterday and the young Houdan cockerel had died. Still no sign of my Welsummer or the Favarolle. Email sent to one of the JointMasters of the hunt telling them they are ultimately responsible and that I shall seek compensation in due course.
 
Which energiser do you have Foxy? I have a Gemini 80 for my enclosure which puts out 4,200 volts. I went up this afternoon with mealworms for all the girls and found the two chicks (2 months old) running around outside the enclosure. Trying to get close enough to pick them up I inadvertently chased them back the way they had got out. As there was no-one around I found something to tie across the gap but I was worried it would affect the operation, so I untied it, switched the fence on and grabbed hold of it. I only got a fairly mild tingle - I wouldn't have wanted to hold it for long but it wasn't enough to make me yelp. I tied it up again and got the same tingle again, so I left it tied up.

I think maybe the battery is going flat so I need to have a word about it.
 
Margaid said:
Which energiser do you have Foxy? I have a Gemini 80 for my enclosure which puts out 4,200 volts. I went up this afternoon with mealworms for all the girls and found the two chicks (2 months old) running around outside the enclosure. Trying to get close enough to pick them up I inadvertently chased them back the way they had got out. As there was no-one around I found something to tie across the gap but I was worried it would affect the operation, so I untied it, switched the fence on and grabbed hold of it. I only got a fairly mild tingle - I wouldn't have wanted to hold it for long but it wasn't enough to make me yelp. I tied it up again and got the same tingle again, so I left it tied up.

I think maybe the battery is going flat so I need to have a word about it.
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We have this one, which when in optimal conditions puts out around 9,000 to 10,000 volts. It has 7 stored joules so very powerful.
Most of the electrified fencing failures or breaches can be traced to installation or management problems with a fencing system, and issues arise when a fox gets a minimal shock then loses fear of the fence and is then more likely to challenge and either dig under or climb over.

http://www.electricfence-online.co.uk/shop/electric-fencing/energisers-mains-powered/phoenix-hlm700-mains-electric-396058.html
 
Isn't that a matter for the Police? Surely if dogs have attacked or killed or even caused the death livestock the Police should be involved. If pet dogs were to chase or kill a farmers sheep etc. the owners would be fined. Are the owners of hunting hounds living by different rules?
 
If dogs chase sheep or cattle the farmer can shoot it. The problem is that we have to continue to live close to this guy, in a small community, and he is also Anita's son's employer. Ultimately as Foxy said it is the hunt's responsibility and I have emailed one of the Masters advsing that I will be claiming compensation in due course.

Thanks for the info Foxy - I mentioned the low shock to Anita and yes, it's a management problem as the grass needs cutting. I'm going to put a strip of damp proof course under my fence to stop the grass growing into the fence. If that doesn't work I'll have to consider getting the Phoenix but the price was much more of a shock than I got from the fence!
 
Just read up on this Margaid. Terrible story and my sympathies go out to you. Electric fencing is useless on its own against a pack. Good, strong, tall fencing is the only way. This is the problem we have with the landlords' new dogs and worse still the local Chasse. On Sundays and Wednesdays all the chickens must stay in their runs.
Just North of here two Sunday mushroom pickers were killed by the Chasse dogs last month!
 
And you don't here about thatin the media do you!!

Thanks for your sympathy Chris; there's no sign of the two missing hens so they are presumed dead.

It was "only" 2 puppies so the thought of what the full pack could do is awful

I have been thinking about Heras fencing panels as I have found a reasonably priced source, but I don't really wan the place looking like Fort Knox. We do know when the hunt is in our area and they now have to keep the hounds off our land. I'm going to check with the farms on either side of us - I know one certainly doesn't allow the Field through but not sure about the hounds, or what the other farmer allows. At least then I'll have a better idea of the level of protection I need.

As far as other dogs are concerned, the run will not be near the public footpaths but on what we very definitely view as our private land. I'll have no hesitation in dealing with any dog near the hens - my nephew is no longer using his air rifle (two small boys - the rifle is at his dad's) and said we can have it to learn to shoot.

On a lighter note we took him and family to Blists Hill - he shot down every packet of Poppets (5/5) at the rifle booth, using a "cork" gun with inadequate sights and pulling to the left. The guy asked him not to come back again!

Hope all is going well for you.
 
I am sorry to read that you have been having trouble with the hunt. It is true to say that if someone lets their pet dog run loose amongst livestock it would be shot but these people and their hounds get away with it.
Anyone having problems should google "Hounds Off". It gives useful information to folks who have to put up with situations like this. You can formally warn the hunt off your land by sending the Hunt Secretary a letter and copying it to your local police and politician. Quite a few folks have done this after having pets and livestock killed by out of control hounds and in some areas great swayths of land are now off limits!
 
Thanks Ekusen,

I have exchanged emails with one of the Masters of the hunt and told them they may not run the hounds across our land. I have also told them that any dog not on a lead and seen anywhere near any livestock, including my hens,"willl be regarded as a stray and a danger to the livestock and dealt with accordingly". We do nto have a gun -YET!

The remaining three Welsummers have not started laying again - they were also moulting. I shall have to write again to the hunt and point out that if they don't start laying in the spring the hunt will have to pay. I will also ensure that I do not accept any payment in the meantime "in full and final settlement" of my claim!!
 
I think you need to be sure you have sent a letter to the Master of the hunt, making your requirements clear, by Signed For delivery, so there can be no doubt about whether or not it had been received, unlike e-mail which anyone could claim had never got through.
 
I would if I could find an address.

There are I think three Joint Masters; I have emailed the one I normally deal with regarding dates of Meets in our area. She has replied, with my email below hers, so she can't claim she didn't receive it.

At the moment I'm reasonably content with that - when it comes to getting money out of them then I will ensure that letters go to all the Hunt Masters. Unfortunately I have had experiences where Recorded Delivery items have not been signed for, although subsequent actions clearly indicated the letter had been delivered. Also in an area like this the helpful post delivery people sometimes sign for you if you're out to save the hassle of having to arrange redelivery. It would be a 30 mile round trip for me to collect such a thing if there was no one here to sign for it.

As a point of interest, Court Papers sent out by First Class Mail are deemed to be delivered the next working day - so actually all one needs is a (free) Certificate of Posting.

Thank you all for your advice. At the moment Anita and I are more concerned about whether the hens will start laying again. She has three fertile eggs from her April hatched Houdans, which were laid just before the "incident" - but nothing from them since. Unfortunately we have now idea which of the cockerels were responsible, and if the remaining one will fancy them!!
 
Margaid said:
snip<
To answer your questions Marigold, no the hunt didn't know about Sunday and from what I've been told the first Master contacted didn't seem that bothered even though he was told that the hounds had to be collected within 2 hours. Anita's husband had to ring 2 other hunt Masters before the kennelman contacted them about collecting the hounds -3 1/2 hours after the first call. He wanted to leave them until morning, or get them back to the other farm but neither Anita nor her OH would stand for that so they were apparently collected about 10.30 pm.>

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At the risk of upsetting someone, if a dog ran in a sheep field & worried a farmer's ewes, he wouldn't hesitate to shoot the dog.
These dogs were clearly worrying your hens, to the point of killing some of them. No farmer would hold on to your dog until you collected it at 10.30 at night, so why do the same to these hounds?
 
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