Drainage

Castara

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As the phone has rung again, “ Do we do Lawn drainage”? :-)12 Clients are looking at me sceptically after convincing them to buy a water storage butt in April, :-)02 And the word is Its gonna get wetter!! :-)07 A few thoughts on Flooded runs in town gardens come to mind :-)19 ,
An EX client of mine of recent had her run and coop flooded out , there on a bad site with an old stream running underneath, To be honest I never liked the run, always mucky , a mix of mud n straw and willow leaves from an overhanging tree ( Annoying trees , constantly dropping stuff all year and they’ll kill yer pond too !) , The area is not fully covered but with the rain of late the trouble was always going to come from below. Perhaps if the site level had been assessed better or some fore thought paid on where the water would settle, then perhaps she could have avoided a night of falling over in a slurry of chicken waste and half drowned birds , I believe she got an eye infection the next day.
Of course not everyone has the luxury of building their coop on a little hillock above the flood plains. But by getting down on your hands and knees and putting your head on the ground, and looking in all directions you can get a fair idea how the lay of your garden lies, and then if the area for you coop and run must be in a low lying depression, steps can be taken too avoid flooding , ask yourself could the area be raised above the surrounding area ( I have noticed that chickens seem determined to lower the area of their run by constantly digging ) Thus creating hollows which will be filled if the water table rises.
If you need to raise it? Perhaps a foot of Hardwood chips would get the birds out of the worst of the wet . Or can you dig the area out and add some drainage before putting the soil back Thus creating a large mound , Hard-core/Rubble/MOT Type II, is good if its down low , ( A foot or more) Or "20mm pea shingle (Gravel) And covered in something like ‘Mypex ‘ A woven plastic membrane that lets water through but not soil particles which will in time clog up your drainage material, But this must be deep . chickens are miners !! Railway sleepers are a good way of retaining a raised area if a mound is not appropriate. Or if the run floor is to be solid (concrete or paving slabs ) Does it have a 'fall' on it . The book :ugeek: says 1 in 8 , which means every 8 feet the surface drops 1 inch that allows for (Normal) rain to run off, Or if you want a ready reckoner , you want one side of the bubble on your spirit level just touching one of the the black lines.
Then there are soak aways and 'French drains' (please don't have a go , I didn't call um that ) Soak aways are long trenches that have a ‘Fall’ on them and are at least 3-4 feet deep, filled with gravel and covered with a membrane and then covered with soil , the idea is the rain water in the soil ,looking for the path of least resistance goes down and along the trenches and away rather than becoming logged in your lawn , they then can run into a 'French Drain' , Which is a big pit filled with gravel and covered with membrane and soil , these 'French drains’ ,can in extreme circumstances have a pump fitted inside a chamber within the gravel with a float switch which activates when water levels get too high , the water is then pumped away ,
Or Alternatively , Their was this bloke called Noah................. :-)10
Anyone else got any thoughts?
 
Umm, thought French drains were the trenches and soakaways were the pit. We dug a trial pit 2 metres deep last September when we had not had any rain for at least 4 weeks, maybe 6 (remember that?) In 2 days there was 3 inches of water in the bottom. When it rained, it filled up - to within`4 inches of the top! It's been like that ever since, covered with a board. We filled it in about 10 days ago - messy job because the field was going to be mown and we didn't want any accidents. We are on solid clay - and I mean solid, so water does not seep away, we have to get rid of it into the stream.

The foul drainage pipe from the mobile home is in a gravel lined trench which is about 4' down where it crosses the field. It has to go down through a bank to get to the septic tank and as the ground water is flowing through the gravel I have an ideal spot to make a bog garden where the ground flattens out again.

You have to look at where the water is coming from - you can't easily stop it flowing in but you can make it go in the direction you want once it's reached the run or whatever. One way would be to dig the French drain (trench that is) on the side of the run which the water reaches first, then arrange the trench to take the water away from the run to a soakaway (pit). If you put Damp Proof Membrane or plastic sheet on the run side of the trench it will help force the water to flow along the gravel. We've had to do this in the older part of the barn where there is a 3' drop in floor level otherwise water would just flood across the sub floor. The ground was excavated along the wall on the side the water was reaching first, DPM was laid on the base of the trench and up the wall and the trench filled with pea gravel. I'm not sure how the 6" pipe was connected to the trench but the water now flows throuugh the pipe, which is under the floor, and flows out into a drain to the stream. The pipe wouldn't be needed for a chicken run as the gravel filled trench would take the water away.

Sounds more complicated than it is, but it's a fair amount of work. It's what I need to do along the fence dividing the run from the adjacent field although we will put in a slotted pipe to link up with an existing field drain as soakaways don't work here.
 
Yep :-)17 French drains are trenches and soak aways are pits. And really I shouldnt write stuff after drinkin ;) Although I've smelt a few french drains that where the pits. That mistake could really get me in trouble on a design , not to mention all the french people I might offend ( wouldnt be the first time)
What you say about 'Not stopping the water But Diverting it away' is wisdom indeed. There's probably an old Chinese sayin about that some where. Solid Clay :roll: Nasty stuff , Its just like a bowel when you dig a hole , I've dug into it before only to watch little shoots of water pop out the sides and soon fill my hole. The worst senario I've had to deal with was every morning we had the pumps out draining the day befores work we made series of 'French drains' across a garden with a 'Pit' (english one :lol: ) at the end of each
Then finally in front of the patio we buried a slited pipe in a gravel trench that went round the patio and then we joined it to the drain under the house . i remember the clay pipe we where attaching the slited pipe to kept breaking, we ended up making the join about 2 meters under the house . lucky the bloke i was workin with was a small gezzar . We also nearly lost a laborer on that one , in the 'English Pit'. We gave him a 'Paddy Spade' ( and before any of ya's say a thing , that's what me relatives in Ireland call um) Basically a long handled shovel that's pointed at the tip . They really save your back with a deep hole. Any ways I gave him the shovel and explained that he could dig a shovels worth out and step back and take another and so on gradually going round in circle . that way he wouldn't be bending over , So we left him to it . Launch time comes and we look round for the lad , Well you could still see his head and shoulders. but the rest of him , was below ground level, Now as He was a big lad , and wearing full water proofs , the Clay hole presented a bit of a challenge , when me and my colleague and gotten up of the ground and stopped laughing we tried to get him out . But as I said the guy I was working with was little bloke . After about half 15 minutes of laughing , I mean trying to get him out , The bloke in the hole was a pitiful clay mess , The Swamp monster we called him . We ended up having to tip gravel in the hole gradually raising the level till he could scramble out :lol:
 
I think those spades are also called Cornish shovels. BTW the French drain is named after one Henry F. French (1813–1885) who was American.

It's been pouring heavily and steadily for the last 5 hours with no sign of it stopping. At this rate all the moats around the buildings and the overflow for the ditch will be flowing with water, the "bog garden" will be a lake and I'd be paddling in the chicken run if it was there.
 
Ahhh Learn somink new every day , or I try to :-)19 , so I'm not insulting the French, Thats good :-)17 . Good luck with the bog garden and all who sail in her ;)
 
Drainage on Clay

I have the same soil as my neighbours and it is clay based. I have bought extra land and have just under 1/4 acre but the neighbours have plots 30ftx 30ft. I am a keen gardener aswell which my neighbours are not but take the 30 x 30 of the original plot. I do not have a drainage problem wheras the others do- especially in the "Drought" conditions that we have just come out of. It is down to cultivation. 25 years ago when I moved in I rotovated the whole lot and incorporated manure and sharp sand and the others have rarely seen a spade put into the ground. They have put it down to grass and that is it. I have also top dressed the lawn and other than a couple of low spots where the water collects- it is relatively dry. Even where the chickens are on the low part of the garden it is dry. True that the run has a couple of times this winter flooded but it drains away fairly quickly and within 48 hours is dry.

I am just in the process of putting a Bark path round the chicken run and I have not put a membrane underneath it yet as it is my intention to dig a channel under the bark path- fill it with Rubble and gravel to act as a soak away to alleviate the Drainage problem I do have round them in the extreme weather we are getting now. In fact yesterday I had to dig a hole near the run and the water table is 2ft below ground level. My neighbours can only dig 4" and the hole will fill with water.

So drainage can be achieved in the worst of conditions- but the best thing to do is not buy a house and garden on clay. Takes too many years of hard work to get it draining.
 
One of our previous houses had clay based soil and the veg plot had been greatly improved over the years by adding sand and manure. That garden had about 10" of topsoil before you hit the solid clay which went down 6 to 8 feet, depending where you were in the garden, then you hit the sand.

This is different, we're not on clay based soil we are on clay. Whena really deep trench was being dug I just missed the opportunity to grab a slab of clean clay to take to my pottery class - it looked exactly like the stoneware clay we use there. We have no mare than 2" of soil before you are straight into solid, and I mean solid, clay. You need 2 spades to dig a planting hole - one to get the clay off the other. I tried planting a couple of shrubs and then had to move then a couple of years later. The root ball came out exacly as it went in - no penetration into the surrounding clay. The aquifer which provides all our water is 88' down according to the bore hole drilling records and it is clay and clay silt all the way.

Rotovating is not the answer, it just brings the really sticcky clay up to the surface and seals it - we have to really keep an eye on the building contractors to make sure they reinstate the ground properly. If any clay is left on top it stays there for years. I have plans to construct raised beds 2' deep with decent bought in topsoil to grow veg.

Unlike the previous house where we could get down to the sand layer, soakaways just do not work here because of the depth o fhe clay. I wish they did as it would make things a lot simpler. As it is we just have to put in systems to get the water away and hopefully down to the stream.
 
Ohhh yes. Drains out of the surrounding land. I was the last land before the stream so everything drained down towards the stream. That's why I said in one of my earlier posts that you can't always stop the water coming in where it wants to, but you can make it go out where you want it to. To prevent water ingress into the building at the lower level we would have to have excavated at least 8 feet, being the difference between the field at the other end of the buildings and the lowest internal floor level. We would then have to have constructed an enormous French drain and then trenched all the way to the stream, some 300 yards away. Actually thinking about it we would have had to go deeper otherwise there would have been too much fall - the stream being some 40 feet below the point at which we would need to install the French drain. As it was only a relatively small area that was affected it was easier to do what I described in my post of 13th July 2012. The work was done in 2010 and the floor is bone dry.
 

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