Dithering...good or bad sign?

Bantams=Banter said:
The Bluebelle, (Margo) is being an absolute swine to the Speckledy (Mondi) this bedtime! Chasing her, pecking her, jumping on her... They were all trying to jump up on the roof of the coop, so I read that as they wanted to go in, so I put them all in the house tonight.
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They will sort it out given time BB. These things play out as they are feeling more secure, oddly enough - when it is all new they put the pecking order on hold but as they settle in they start to work out their differences. I have heard before that speckledies tend to be bottom of the pecking order. She will be fine - its very early days.
Can I suggest that as your run is all weld mesh and quite safe it would be better to let them roost wherever they want to for the moment? Familiarity will soon grow, things cool off within a week or two but it can be stressful in the process.
My lot get along fine now but my Orp (also a sensitive soul) had a really bad time of it joining a pre-existing flock. I got her with a friend who unfortunately died leaving her to integrate on her own.
When you say 'they are all so big' I'm thinking that it may be a tight squeeze in the coop? They need at least 8 inches of perch each ideally when they are all getting along normally.
The least likely thing is that they will leave the garden. Chooks are very nervous about leaving their known territory (and your garden is already their known territory).
Trust your outer defenses (the weld mesh sound pretty good to me) and give them the space to work it out for the moment. Its very early days - it will cool down once Margo feels that she has impressed her position. Your chickens are all hardy and it is summer - mine roost on a sheltered open perch in the middle of winter - no problem at all!
Don't worry! It will all blow over surprisingly quickly.
 
All this is normal. A bit distressing, but they will settle down. They're probably not very happy yet, (would you be, if suddenly plonked in with two strangers in a new place?) but it will be OK once they find their way around and get used to you. You just have to let them have time and space to work out their pecking order. Once they know and accept who is going to be boss, and where the other two fit in, they will be fine. How big is the run? Space is key with chickens, so once you've taught them to follow you when you shake the corn box (they will learn this more or less immediately) you could let them out to explore if you are there to keep an eye on them. You haven't got any flighty breeds, so if not alarmed they are unlikely to fly away. Try to give them a quiet life, with minimum close-up attention except when offering treats, let them come to you, don't try to catch them.
 
Gosh, thank you both!

The run is 4m sq Marigold. I let them out last night for a bit in the garden and now the Bluebelle is pacing up and down by the run door to be let out again! As someone who is very anti- zoo this is killing me!!! But I can't let them have garden time every day. I've built them a lovely dust bath in the run, and they've not been in it! X

Rick, l'm on a late shift at work tonight (5-11) so I'm going to have to let them find their own way in to bed. I'll check them when I get home. Yes, it's welded steele but I'm super-paranoid... X
 
I've enjoyed catching up on this thread, after a couple of days being busy doing other stuff. It's good to know and learn from different experiences, particularly as I am also considering another pair. It's so helpful having this forum, with all the great voices of experience and the comfort of knowing you are not alone - because chances are, that someone will have had the same or similar problem, at some time during their ownership of hens.

I am sure bantams-banter will be so happy she got her hens, in a week's time, when they are all settled. :-)
 
Just to clarify, because it is sometimes confusing -
Do you mean 4 x 4 meters = 16 sq metres
or 2 x 2 metres = 4 square metres?
 
Congrats on the new girls. Don,t stress too much about keeping them in at times they will get used to a routine and far better to keep them safe if you are not around all the time. They will sort things out between themselves over the next week or so and things will be fine
Margo Leadbetter is a brilliant name for the Bluebelle as they are somewhat bossy, I know we have a very bossy 6 year old who stomps about like Darth Vader.
Ours go to bed pretty well except one who always wants to be up later than everyone else and jumps up and down pretending to catch imaginary flies. The hen equivalent of kids needing a drink or another bedtime story. At the moment their bedtime is way past mine, on earlies this week 3.45am start.
 
rick said:
Just to clarify, because it is sometimes confusing -
Do you mean 4 x 4 meters = 16 sq metres
or 2 x 2 metres = 4 square metres?
Click to expand...

2m x 2m. It's the Omlet walk in run
 
bigyetiman said:
Congrats on the new girls. Don,t stress too much about keeping them in at times they will get used to a routine and far better to keep them safe if you are not around all the time. They will sort things out between themselves over the next week or so and things will be fine
Margo Leadbetter is a brilliant name for the Bluebelle as they are somewhat bossy, I know we have a very bossy 6 year old who stomps about like Darth Vader.
Ours go to bed pretty well except one who always wants to be up later than everyone else and jumps up and down pretending to catch imaginary flies. The hen equivalent of kids needing a drink or another bedtime story. At the moment their bedtime is way past mine, on earlies this week 3.45am start.
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I'm visualising your Bluebelle in a black cape too :) I love the comparison with a child wanting another drink or story too!!
 
Sorry to have to say this B=B but that's only 4 square metres which isn't really enough space to keep them shut in all day. The recommended minimum is 2 square metres per hen, in your case 6 square metres. It really annoys me when I see adverts with too many chickens in the run space. I know the runs are quite expensive if bought new, but if you can save the pennies to extend it by another section (or even better, two) your hens will be much happier when shut in there and you won't get the problems that arise from being overcrowded, like feather pecking.
 
Yes, its a classic mistake. When I got my first 3 hens it was with a small wooden coop and run sold as good for 3 hens. It was tiny - barely 2 meters of run space and quickly turned into a series of Heath Robinson extensions to get up to 6 sqm before eventually binning the whole ramshackle lot and building a covered aviary.
On the plus side they are very secure. If fastened down well I wouldn't have any worries about a fox getting in - and at least its an off the shelf solution thats guaranteed to work.

In the meanwhile you could try the trick of putting a small table in there with some food and water on it to increase the amount of space for the lowest in the pecking order to retreat to - or, more likely, the bossiest bird will commender the table leaving the other two in peace on the floor. Another way to increase effective space is to make a screen between two of the table legs (or otherwise) so that a beleaguered hen can be anonymous for a while behind the screen. Its all about getting out of sight of each other if they want to - chickens have excellent, high resolution and extended colour vision (very poor low light vision) but are unable to focus sharply beyond a yard (due to their foraging bird style flattened eyeballs.) If they can get far enough away from each other (not actually very far) they can be sufficiently anonymous in a flock not to trigger aggressive behavior from others. Thats where the magic 2 sqm per bird comes from. The aggressive behavior subsides with familiarity - within limits.
 
I think whoever designs these tiny coops with attached runs, must be breeding rabbits!!

When I bought my coop and run (DIY flat pack) and after the hubbie built it, I was shocked and horrified, actually, that this was supposed to be for up to SIX hens. I wouldn't even allow my TWO hens in that space, hence why it was modified before I got them. Hubbie actually extended the coop in height first, then did the same to the run, with wire mesh attached . That meant that it now had extra length and height.

I still wasn't satsfied, hence OH made that external pen with 5 foot fencing around it. The external pen is approximately 20 foot x 15 foot. ( I don't do metres). To me, these hens had spent 18 months in prison and there was no way they were going back there.....

BB - keep an eye on gumtree etc, for cheap dog runs or rabbit runs for sale and see if you can modify one....
 
I've just learnt something from Rick's post - about hen's vision.
Tweetypie, I think B=B has the Omlet walk in run, which looks really good but B=B just doesn't have enough of it. From the website, they can be extended easily - it's just the expense. Rabbit runs, and even dog runs may be built of quite flimsy wire which a fox will bite through. That's why "weld mesh" is so good.
 
Who designs these tiny coops? same men who design kitchens (from Mrs BYM) so don't shoot the messenger.
You can actually hum the Star wars tune as the Bluebell stomps around dum dum dum dum de dum. But she is tough as old boots nothing ails her and still pops out the odd egg now and then which the entire population of Upminster get to hear about as she gets on top of coop and yells for about 30 mins does get a bit croaky after a while
 
Ahh yes, I see that B-B has a problem with foxes. Does that electric fencing work for foxes? Mind you, I bet it doesn't come cheap either.

I think if I started from new, I would "out" all the garden machinery from the 10 x 8 shed and put it in the garage and transform the shed into a big coop :-) (Still thinking about that)... ;-) , but the suggestion could end up in a decree nisi)
 
You don't need a big shed, or a big coop, (or a decree nisi!) they wouldn't use it during the day. Just a big enough walk-in run with a free-standing coop, on legs so they can get underneath it, and no space is wasted. With extra perches fitted at different heights around the run.

B-B, don't worry too much about your run size. Is yours this one?
I just love the way Omlet photograph all their runs on perfect, untouched lawn grass!
Yes, an extension would be very good, in time, if you can afford it, but let's face it, 3 birds sharing 4 sq. metres, whilst not ideal, is more than they would have if they were living on an egg farm. If you can let them out a bit when you are there, that'll be a bonus. The end part of my run, which can be screened off, is 5 sq. metres and I could easily put three of my hens in there with no social problems once they've sorted out their initial squabbles. They'll settle down in time. The main thing at the moment in this hot weather is providing shade - lack of shade will make them restless and distressed, as they have no way of cooling down under all those very warm feathers. Birds don't sweat, and their only way of cooling is by panting to expose the damp membranes inside their mouths. Cover the top and the South and West sides with green tarpaulin if you don't have big trees overhead. You'll need to provide some shelter against wind and rain as well, before the summer is over.

When I was separating my 3 newbies from the two others a few weeks ago, I gave the part of the run with the coop to the newbies. Every night they roosted on the high bar under the roof, and I went down and put them in the coop so they got used to it. When the other two older ones joined them, the first night the two older ones roosted in the coop and the others on the high perch. Then Lily, the other leghorn, the boss, started roosting on the lower perch outside the coop. Then she moved up to the high perch with the new three. Unusually for a leghorn, she had never made her way up that high before the new ones taught her how to do it. When I tried putting her up there, she just looked nervous and flew straight down. Finally, Iris decided it was lonely in the penthouse all by herself and now all five of them sleep on the high perch. Iris and Coco are both quite big heavy birds, not the sort you'd imagine would get up there, even if they use the coop roof for a leg up. Ideal for this hot weather - better ventilation than even a coop with the pophole and all vents always open. I wonder how long it will last when the gales and cold weather comes back. I wish I could get a photo but by the time they're settled firmly enough for me not to disturb them by going in the run, it's too dark to take a pic.
And yes, I did thoroughly check the coop for redmite, no problems.
 
Well, problem solved. I've felt so guilty about the comments regarding the size of my £600 coop and run set up that I phoned my friend Cath who is the wife of a local farmer and she's come and taken my Bluebelle to live on their gigantic farm.
I invested all the savings I have in the welded run because I lost two beloved rabbits to a fox that chewed through the wood frame of a run in the space of five hours one summer evening . Please don't be under the illusion that foxes can't be super determined, even in broad daylight.
Anyway, I have my two remaining girls in the safest possible situation I can. They have the run to themselves now.
The only thing that gives me some comfort is that they seem a lot less stressed now Margo has gone. They were following me around the garden this morning and then sunbathing together.
 
I think that's a very good solution, B-B. Funnily enough, I recently rehomed a Bluebell who just got too much for me to handle, see this thread from about halfway down p.4 onwards; http://poultrykeeperforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10593&start=30 and it was quite a relief to see the back of her and get back to a normally calm group of girls again. Odd, because mine was the first Bluebell I've had, having previously read that they tended to be very shy and retiring! I do hope yours will settle down now and you'll be able to enjoy their company with no worries. That run looks simply splendid, and really safe I should think.
 
I was feeling really guilty because you rehomed your Bluebell Bantams=Banter. Then I read Marigold's post and bearing in mind BYM's Darth Vader impersonator, maybe Bluebells need a lot more space than other breeds!

I'm dithering about whether or not to return to chicken keeping and, although I don't like their hen houses, Omlet's walk in runs are very tempting when I don't have the skills to build my own secure run.
 
Marigold said:
You don't need a big shed, or a big coop, (or a decree nisi!) they wouldn't use it during the day. Just a big enough walk-in run with a free-standing coop, on legs so they can get underneath it, and no space is wasted. With extra perches fitted at different heights around the run.

Tweetiepie, don't worry too much about your run size. Is yours this one?
I just love the way Omlet photograph all their runs on perfect, untouched lawn grass!
Yes, an extension would be very good, in time, if you can afford it, but let's face it, 3 birds sharing 4 sq. metres, whilst not ideal, is more than they would have if they were living on an egg farm. If you can let them out a bit when you are there, that'll be a bonus. The end part of my run, which can be screened off, is 5 sq. metres and I could easily put three of my hens in there with no social problems once they've sorted out their initial squabbles.
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HI Marigold, I think you have me mixed up with the original poster Bantams-Banter, who recently acquired 3 hens and was "dithering" what breeds to get. If you recall, I have the 2 ex-batt's. Mine are in a wooden coop, with attached and enclosed pen, which was extended as we felt it was too small. It then had an additional attached outer run of around 20 foot x 15 foot ish. I now let them have the run of the large garden aswell. WHat I did say was that I may have used the large shed as a large built-in coop and converted it into a full sized coop/run, but there is no need really. :-)

Here is mine:
 

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Sorry! This hot weather is getting to my brain I'm afraid. I've corrected the posts, thank you for pointing it out.
Margaid, I don't think it was lack of space with Violet, just excess of bossiness!
 
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