Black swollen lumps on the tops of my bobwhite quails feat!!

morningstar924

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On the tops of about half of my bobwhite quails feet there are these large swollen balls were there toes come in to meet. Some of them are just starting to get them and some have bloody ones from the other quail pecking them. I wanted to know if anyone else had this happen. What it is. And how to treat it. I have 15 and they are in a 4x2 house with a 4x6 run.
 

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At first glance that looks like a poo ball, doesn't it, but they usually form between the toes rather than on top of the foot. As youn have them on mesh, poo balls are less likely anyway. Could there be any environmental cause injuring their legs somehow? Have you tried bathing in warm salty water, then spraying with antiseptic purple spray? They certainly have enough room- has there been any fighting? Though this isn't where you would expect injuries to happen, is it?
It's a bit strange that so many of them are affected, it makes me wonder if it's a parasite similar to scaly leg in chickens which is burrowing into the scales of the legs, or whether it's something infectious. I've never seen this before, but I'm not very experienced with quail, I hope somebody else can help.
 
One more thought - how old are the birds, and how long has this been developing? Did it just start off with one or two and then spread to others, or did they all seem affected within about the same time?
 
no i did not try bathing them or spraying them and they are 6 weeks old now. I am not sure how long it has been developing because i just noticed it. And it seems like the birds that have it it is at dif. sizes for all of them. Not bad fighting just the quail that do not have the thing on there foot, run around and grap the scabs on the thing on the birds that have it. Underneath it looks kind of like skin but more like if you peeled a couple layers of skin you would see a white slippy layer. Also when you have quail that like to fight they normally go for the feet.
 
If they're only 6 weeks old it's very odd, isn't it? Are you sure the lumps won't soak off? A friend if mine once bought a quail out of pity because the seller said the cherry-tomato-sized lump it had on its foot was a tumour. She soaked and bathed the foot and it came off, it was a poo ball, and the bird was fine.
How long have your quail been on the mesh? Presumably you had them on a flat surface when they were chicks and it's very difficult to keep their feet absolutely clean. I know from experience how anything chicks tread in ends up as a solid mass on the feet, which collects more and more if left unattended. Though as I said I would expect it to be on their toes rather than their legs. Have any of them got these bumps on their toes, or anywhere else?
You could try giving a good soak in warm water. Get a small basin of comfortably warm water, hold the quail with your hand over its wings and gently dip the legs in the water. Hold it there for a while, then try gently rubbing the bump between your fingers. You may need to keep repeating this as if the bump is at least partly dried poo it will be hardened and fairly insoluble. Be careful not to injure the legs but see how much you can dissolve or gently pick away. It may help to use a cotton bud to work on the legs, and a little salt in the water as disinfectant would perhaps be a good idea as well. It will take a while but if it will come off, you'll have to do it to all of them.
Are these your only quail? If you have others, are they unaffected?
 
Yes i do think it is odd. I haven't tried to soak them off but i am going to try after i send this. Yes these are my only Quail but I do have Red Golden pheasant chicks 4 ameraucana chicks 2 Pekins and 12 Red Stars fully grown chickens. And i have not seen the likes of this anywhere
 
I think quail poo is a different consistency to chicken poo - much stickier when wet and then it sets solid, like glue, which makes the poo balls on the chicks feet harder to remove. I'll be interested to know how you get on.
 
I know nothing about Quail but it looks almost as though their feet have gone through the mesh and been damaged when they walked forward and tried to pull them back out. Unlikely I know, as you would expect to find one with both feet through the mesh unable to get out at all. Can you get a macro picture Morningstar?
 
Yes Chris I was wondering about the mesh as well. I know many people keep quail on it, but it never looks very comfortable for them to my mind. That was why I wondered what they were on when much smaller, and how old they were when they were first put on mesh. Also I wondered whether the run you speak of, Morningstar, was also mesh based or if not, what the floor was made of?
 
When they were chicks they were first raised on paper towls to prevent splayed foot, then i put the on shavings for like 4 weeks then i moved them into the quail coop which has a shavings floor and a wire mesh floor
 
I checked in with a friend of mine who has all kinds of birds from pigeons to quail to peacocks. and he seems to think they are Scaly Leg Mites, but my vet seems to think it is a fungus so i bought an anti fungus and a aersol liquid bandage from them. If that does not work then i will treat them with a method of killing scaly leg mites
 
I don't think it's likely to be scaly leg mite, since this takes much longer to develop, and although it can result in lumps on the feet and legs in extreme cases, it begins with raised scales on the legs over quite a long period, not lumps. At only 6 weeks old, and in the clean conditions you describe, they just wouldn't have had a chance to develop this. I did think of this at first but that was before I knew they were so young. So maybe they will respond to the fungus treatment, let's hope so. Are any of your pheasants or chickens affected? Did you try bathing one of the quails legs to see if it removed any layers?

Whereabouts are you? I'm just wondering if you have access to a good avian vet, as most vets are not very experienced with birds.
 
I agree with Marigold. Not scaly leg mite as that takes months to develop. It could be a fungus but there needs to be a wound site for it to get into and attack. So I'm back to the feet down the mesh theory, which has then become fungally infected. Gentian Violet applied with a cotton bud, which is an antiseptic and antifungal. We are using it now on a suspected case of Fowl Pox which now appears to be fungal infection of an earlier wound.
 
I'm shooting in the dark here, but am now wondering about the eggs they came from. I have read that Mareks and similar tumour- producing problems are not transmitted via the egg, which is a comforting thought, and anyway Mareks manifests itself quite differently from this, assuming all your birds are running around and moving normally.
I'm also wondering if you cleaned the eggs with sterilising fluid before setting them. If it is a fungal infection it might conceivably have been present on the surface of the eggs and transmitted to the chicks from the eggshells whilst they were drying off in the incubator. The warm damp conditions might well promote the growth of fungal moulds. If this were the case, one might expect that the breeder would also have affected adult birds. Have you thought of contacting him to find out more?
 
Knowledgeable friend from another forum, very experienced with quails, has emailed me this, after I sent her the link to your thread.

Subject: Re: Mystery quail problem
Message: Hiya...... mmmmm not something I have seen before...

I would have said scaly leg but everyone thinks it too early.... but maybe something like sacoptic mange mite (guessing) or similar.

Anyway I would treat with Ivermectin once a week for three weeks to kill off any parasitic problems (one drop would do it) and also dip the legs in Betadine which is a spray to prevent infection :)

Not sure what I think about wire..... maybe an allergy to the coating??  Keep saying I will try the wire cages (usually when I am cleaning them out) but it looks too uncomfortable :(

Let me know what the outcome is as I dont go on the other forum :)
 
I also noticed today that the ones that have it the worst are also missing most of there feathers on there thighs.
 
Another friend says bobwhites are really bad for pecking each other and it looks like old wounds to him. He suggests a good spray with the purple stuff and then coating with Vaseline. I wonder, if pecking is involved especially of the open wounds, whether this is learned behaviour? It certainly can be in chickens.
 
Yes they do peck the wounds that is why i had seperated them and i am using an anti fungal and a liquid bandage for animals that they can not peck off that i got at the vets office. I live in new Wilmington Pa and i have a pretty good avian vet hear
 
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