Urgent Help needed...Pecking and bullying

[chickenlover]

Hi Everyone

I am new to the forum but urgently need some advice.
I found one of my chickens, Pecker hid in a corner about 10 days ago and on examination found she had prolapsed. We moved her to isolation and treat her with warm baths to cleanse the wound, put honey on it to try and reduce it. Then we discovered that she had Vent Gleet so we have treat her for that with epsom salts, yoghurt, green tea etc. To our amazement the vent has gone back after the prolapse, the vent gleet had cleared so it was time to rehome her with her friends. We only have 4 chickens and they were purchased together from where we bought them from. We have had them approx 15 months and have been together always.
However when we went to put her back with the others last night, two of them were bullying her even though they were "sisters". We decided to isolate the two bullies and left Pecker with our other hen Margaret, who were fine.
We read that to isolate the bullies for a few days and then re-introduce. Or do you think a few days is too long.
Please help we just want out chickens to be a happy family and am so worried that they might kill Pecker who has been so poorly and is still quite weak, although she was wanting to get back to the others.
We don't want to leave the bullies too long.
Thanks for your help.

 

[Marigold]

Hi Chickenlover, and welcome to the Forum.
If you have room to keep them as two pairs, they will be quite happy and Pecker will have more time to recover fully before having to face the others. What a good thing Margaret is being a friend to her . Very often hens do form pairs like this, and give each other a lot of support within the flock. I would keep them apart for a couple of weeks if you can, and then try reintroducing the bullies as if they were new hens to the flock, which in effect they will be. If Pecker and Margaret are in the main run and coop, they will have the advantage of holding territory when the bullies are returned, so long as Pecker has got her health and strength back by then. If you are not sure about the best way to reintegrate them, maybe ask again when the time comes as there are some useful ways to reduce potential conflict. Do let us know how you get on.

 

[foxy]

Hello and welcome to the forum chickenlover, have split off your topic to make a new thread

 

[chrismahon]

Welcome to the forum Chickenlover. Done all the right things and you won't know if a few days is long enough until you re-introduce them. Presumably they can all see each other and they haven't therefore de-stabilised as a flock. I agree with Marigold. Don't take any risks and leave them apart for at least a couple of weeks. Then reintroduce them one at a time a few hours apart with the nastiest last. As Marigold says there are a few tips to add on introductions if needed later.

 

[chickenlover]

Thanks for your post and advice Marigold.

I returned one of the bullies in with Margaret and Pecker, bit of tussling going on with the bully but the three of them seemed settled with obviously Rooster [bully] being the top hen!!

Left Paxo [other bully] on her own and returned back to the coop this morning. It was good to see Pecker rising up to her for top hen but she was soon knocked back Paxo!! I keep going up to check on them, but before I returned Paxo, I found Margaret now with a prolapse!! So I have isolated her and treating her it's one thing after another. Why do chickens prolapse? i have heard it could be due to stress or is it something that's lacking from their diet? They have layers pellets, mixed corn, fresh vegetables and scraps from the kitchen, they also have oyster shell but am I missing something? Also Paxo has a red bottom and lost some of her feathers, she has been like this for some time now but it doesn't bother her and she is one of my best layers but why is this?

I'm off up the garden now to check on the blighters, but didn't realise how nasty chickens could be to each other, as I posted last time they were bought from the same farm all of them together.

Please help!!

 

[chickenlover]

Sorry Chrismahon thanks for your reply also, would welcome any advice to sort my girls out.

 

[chrismahon]

We have had chickens with red bottoms for no fathomable reason and no matter what we put on them it didn't sort it Chickenlover. They just cleared up on their own. We subsequently 'discovered' the healing powers of simple E45 cream and perhaps that would have worked. We put it down to the acidity of the cockerel's ejaculation, but that's not the reason in your case.

Prolapses happen due to a weakness from old age or a very large egg, or in our case an egg with a thin shell that broke trapping the wall of the vent and dragging it inside out. Pushed it back, made sure it was clean, took her to the vet, she did the same, pushed it back in once again and never a problem since. Anusol seems to help apparently; never tried it myself.

Not sure about scraps from the kitchen, but everything in moderation should be fine -except meat and uncooked potato peelings. Wouldn't bother with oystershell grit if they are on layers pellets. Simple mixed grit will be fine as all the Calcium they need is in the layers pellets.

Chickens canm be nasty and it usually comes down to available space. The run needs to be 4 square metres per hen. Any less and problems start.

 

[Marigold]

Quite a tricky one, this!
It largely depands on what facilities you have for housing them as two separate pairs, or as a trio with one separate. If you can divide and rule' like this, it does make things easier when there are problems with injury, illness or just aggression. As you say, stress is probably part of the problem, chickens are susceptible to changes and often react with various health problems. Prolapse is not uncommon in hybrid layers, especially those over 2-3 years old. If you have had them 15 months and bought them originally at point of lay, they will be at least 20+ months old now and at the end of their second laying season. If they have been laying heavily up to now, they may be coming towards the time when egglaying problems begin to be evident, such as prolapse, eggbinding, thin shells or none, or funny-shaped eggs. As you got them all from the same place, and two of them are showing prolapse problems, I would suspect they possibly share a genetic problem. It's at this age that commercial egg producers cull their hens, because although many or most are still capable of producing eggs well into their third year or beyond, as a batch there will be lower productivity and more health problems making the flock less productive and the eggs less good quality for selling to the public. (At this stage the lucky ones become exbatts and enjoy a new life in a 'real home!') You obviously treated Pecker's prolapse successfully so you know what to do about Margaret. It might be possible to keep her in with Pecker for a longer time, but you would have to be very careful that Pecker didn't have a go at her 'bits' until she was healed up properly. I cant help thinking these two would be better off on their own together for quite a long time whilst they both regain strength, to reduce the risk of further injury and upset. As you say, chickens are horrible to each other especially once there are any changes in the flock dynamics.
As for Paxos red bottom and missing feathers, i wondered if you have carefully examined round her bum area for lice? There may be tiny white eggs round the base of their feathers, which would be causing irritation and feather loss. It's possible that the others may have been pecking at the area in search of a quick snack (ugh!) If you find anything, treat all of them with lice powder and/or ask for more advice on here from people who have been similarly afflicted.
Sometimes it just seems as if everything is going wrong with chickens, doesn't it? We've all been through those times when, having thought we'd cracked it, something happens that throws the whole thing into doubt. Today I've just found that, for the first time ever, all of my layers have suddenly started to lay their eggs on the floor and not in the nestboxes they've used happily for years. So now I've got to go and try to sort that one out!

 

[Marigold]

PS - I think this was just my fault in not shutting the nestbox lid tightly enough, so the morning sun was shining in to their 'bedroom window.' But just in case of a sudden infestation of redmite, I thoroughly cleaned out the coop, renewed the redmite powder and changed the bedding in the boxes. By the time I'd finished Nutmeg wss queueing up anxiously to get inside, settle down immediately and lay her egg in her favourite box. So that one was easy to solve, anyway!

 

[chickenlover]

Good news and bad news I'm afraid.

The good news is the girls have sorted themselves out as a team!! Paxo, the dominant one, Rooster second in command and poor old Pecker just hanging on in there. Yes it's been a tough week what with reintroducing Pecker into the flock and with poor old Margaret. When I went to see the girls before bed they were all separate, one in her nest box, Pecker on her own and Paxo on her own. Last night I found Pecker and Paxo huddled together on their perch which was a welcome sight to see after all the fighting and aggression!! So I think I've cracked it with them, but can't seem to cure Margaret's prolapse. Three times a day a warm soak with epsom salts and I've tried and my husband to peel some scabby bits off her vent as we did successfully with Pecker and push it back in but it keeps on coming back out. She is covered with honey to reduce the swelling and also I've noticed like cream "poo" on it which we have tried to wash off and put yoghurt on it - same treatment for Vent Gleet which we had to do with Pecker as well. Margaret is not as big as the others, therefore not as strong but she is alert, eating well, drinking and bless her is not a minute's trouble when she is in her bucket having a soak. She is also missing the others and calling out for them, unfortunately they cannot see each other as the "hospital" is at the other end of the garden and cannot be moved as it's static to be with the others. I do not know what else to try with the prolapse, in fact she laid an egg yesterday but it was covered in blood. I've put her on corn and not layers pellets.

Paxo's red bottom has one or two white bits on it so could it be mites/flees, if so what is the best stuff to get for it, or would just E45 cream do the trick, none of the others have this problem.

Please help to get Margaret on the mend, as I said tried everything like we did with Pecker but not responding.

Cheers everyone!!

 

[chrismahon]

As you said Chickenlover the egg laying isn't helping. Wheat diet should stop her laying for a while but you're doing all you can. Someone suggested Anusol so perhaps instead of the honey and yoghurt it is worth a try?

 

[Marigold]

I really wouldn't recommend Anusol or any other haemorrhoid cream as its very strong stuff and not only is it not licensed for chickens but as an anti inflammatory it's unlikely to be much help with a prolapse, which is basically folds of tissue coming loose from the oviduct, not inflamed lumps like haemorrhoids.
Sad to say, I think that, if you took her to the vet, he would advise you that her time has come. If she is trying to lay eggs covered in blood, it's probably a painful process for her, and she is very unlikely to recover fully from this condition, it will recur even if you can patch her up this time. Once a hybrid layer starts getting symptoms like these, one just has to think what is the kindest thing to do.