Sudden deaths?

C

crispyminstral

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Hi,

Over the past two months I have lost a few chickens. It is all a bit intermittent and although the symptoms seem similar it is sometimes up to 3 weeks before I lose another bird.

They have mostly all looked a little 'off' - squinty eyes, faces pale off slightly, look lethargic and hold their tails down - then within 2-4 days have just died. There have been no prior symptoms or signs like sneezing, runny poos, messy bottoms etc and where they have laid dead, there is no blood from either end.

They are kept free range in a large run as we have a resident fox nearby, have free access to clean water and a 50/50 mix of layers pellets and mixed corn, with oyster grit in piles around the run. They all sleep indoors which is cleaned out twice weekly with sawdust on the floor and two separate nest boxes with straw in which they don't sleep in.

The thing that bothers me most is that I had two 18 weeks old red pekin cockerels in the run with 5 other hens - three more pekins and 2 aracauna x silkies - who were both running around and eating yesterday and practising their crowing, they literally looked like a picture of health. Then overnight one had died in their house, again no mess near his body although there was a little bit of blood in a different area which could have come from a different chicken.

This has broken the pattern of looking a little off then dying, so we have taken his body straight to the vets for a post mortem as well as the blood we found in the house for analysis. This is so disheartening as I have bred and raised all these hens and they are lovely and friendly, I thought I may just have had some bad luck but now it seems like it might all be related.

I was just wondering if anyone had any idea what they thought this might be and if they could offer any advice as I'm dreading going in the run in the morning for fear of what I might find :(

Thanks, C
 
Presume the poos are OK, their crops are full at night and empty in the morning and they have been wormed with Flubenvet? My first thought was could be red mite. Once they get to the stage that the blood loss at night is higher than they can replenish during the day that's it. First signs are pale and droopy posture. Pale comb on its own could simply be due to the start of the moult, but they should be half way through or finished by now. Obviously moulting at the same time increases their susceptability as they are weaker anyway. So the next one to go would be the one at the end of the perch closest to the infestation. As the number of hosts decreases the blood taken from each of the remainder increases so at this stage they could possibly just go overnight. Worth checking thoroughly for mite.
 
I new to keeping but I thought that sawdust can be bad for there breathing. I use dust free comfy bedding just a thought. Hope they all start feeling better x


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I would be more concerned about the usage of straw, it may be it is harbouring mould, and spores if slightly damp. The weather is damp at the moment, and this can cause a toxic effect in birds, particularly young birds. I would do away with the sawdust, and straw and opt for shavings.

JubesX
 
jubilee said:
I would be more concerned about the usage of straw, it may be it is harbouring mould, and spores if slightly damp. The weather is damp at the moment, and this can cause a toxic effect in birds, particularly young birds. I would do away with the sawdust, and straw and opt for shavings.

JubesX
Click to expand...

Straw can also harbour redmite in the hollow stalks, in case redmite is implicated.
What a dreadful situation for you, i'm so sorry to hear about your worries. Please be sure to let us know what the P.M. reveals.
 
Wow what a stressful time it is for you and the rest of your flock, hope it's all sorted soon
 
Hi, I wonder if it is possible for you to update us on your situation with your chooks and the post mortem result as I have in the last few weeks had 2 deaths in 4 month old chooks that I purchased at a week old from a breeder. I currently have one more looking "off", spends most of her time asleep, is eating ok but keeps on looking up to the sky. I took her to the vet 3 days ago and she had a slight temp and the vet thought she was quite thin, her crop was full.Breathing fine. She was given a steroid and antibiotic injection and is having oral Baytril twice a day.
The deaths of the first one was totally out of the blue-fine one day and dead in the morning, the other one had looked off for about a week and I thought appeared pale and then was dead one morning. I now have this one ill-the 3rd of the 4 purchased.They are all different breeds. They've been wormed in the last few weeks, had red mite treatment just in case. I don't know what more I can do- I am particularly concerned about the way she keeps looking upwards with her neck lying backwards on her body This is something she has started to do since her trip to the vets.She is with the others in the day but at the moment I am bringing her in overnight .
They are on sawdust-should this be removed?
Any advice from anyone gratefully received.
 
What are the droppings like?
Colour of comb, granted pale at their age, but any change in colour of face?
What breed are they?
 
Hi,
the droppings are normal. The comb yes is normal for age and the face colour doesn't seem to have changed but may if anything be slightly paler. This one is a barnevelder, the 2 I have already lost were a silkie/sussex cross and a cream leghorn. I saw her earlier and she was in her posture of neck far back and head looking straight up when one of the others bumped onto her and she fell over. Her tail feathers are beginning to look unkept and scruffy. Thanks for your interest.
Jo
 
Hi Newtoducks. Very sorry to hear this, We had one with her neck looking backwards but it came on in a few minutes and was probably a stroke. Your problem sounds neurological and it appears to be transfering so I would have to say a form of Mareks. But I am puzzled as to why they have been fine for so long? Have you contacted the breeder to see if they have any similar problems at the moment?
 
I must say I am thinking it may be Mareks. In addition to what I've already explained she appears maybe to be deaf. I can walk by her with the dogs and she appears oblivious to us unless we disturb her by touching her.I am contacting the breeder tomorrow, I did speak to her after the first one died and as it had not shown any sign of illness the previous day she suggested suffocation.It had been a very cold night (about -4c) and as they are in with adult hens she thought they could have huddled together and caused the suffocation. I must say like cryspyminstral, I too open the hen house in the morning and look at the floor first as this is where the dead ones have been. I also lost an adult to egg peritonitis 2 weeks ago so on 3 consecutive mondays I've lost a chicken. I've got 12 left out of 15 so quite a high percentage loss.
If it is Mareks when do you think they would normally have started to show symptoms? and do you think they have come with it? they were vaccinated. Should I keep her separate from the others? I will post tomorrow the response from the breeder.
 
It may be Lymphoid Lucosis, which in my experience happens rarely and randomly, the others were different causes and co-incidental. The symptoms can be very similar, depending where the tumours start to form. If it were Mareks I would expect it to have spread quickly, not just one at a time. You say they were vaccinated, presumably against Mareks as well. I have heard of a new Mareks strain supposedly appeared in the Lincoln area but that's speculation at the moment. Interesting to hear what the breeder says.
 
I have spoken to the breeder who was concerned at my losses but has had no losses in the ones that she kept and grew on herself. We discussed possibly Mareks as the most likely cause although they were vaccinated and within 30 minutes of the vaccine being prepared. We also talked about coccidiosis and although there is no blood in the poo and the vet thought it more prevelant in large flocks it is a possibility as they were brought up with ducklings so the feed did not contain the additive given to prevent cocci.
I talked to the vet this morning who was worried about the fact she has started to lean her neck back on her body. We are going to give her until tomorrow and if no improvement then I will have to let her go.
Any one with anymore ideas or suggestions as although I don't want to do this I don't want her to suffer.
Thanks
 
Has anybody mentioned gapeworm?
Not very likely, as the neck movement doesn't sound like what you would expect, and you have wormed them, but I did wonder.
 
Neck movement like that can be caused, by a bump on the head - doesn't have to be a big bump - we call them stargazers - usually found in birds whose scull isn't complete (araucanas, silkies, appenzellzers etc) anything with a tuft on it's head - doesn't sound either like Mareks to me - they don't die suddenly from Mareks, they become progressive paralysed starting off with a limp - the typical stance is one foot forward using it's wing to prop itself up - certain breeds are more prone to that as well (sabelpoots, sebrights and silkies) - and you would notice that as it happens over several days - even weeks- I would go more for the red mite theory
 
Thanks for the input. Have decided that as she is a bit brighter to give her a bit longer. The vet rang this morning and wants to do a pm if and when it comes to it (no charge). They think it may be a virus so she has come inside in a dog crate in case it's contagious. I can hear her pecking away at the peas and sweetcorn I've cooked for her. She's being kept stimulated by the noises in the house and the dogs who keep going to "check" on her.
I spotted her circling earlier on and these strange head movements are mainly in response to being disturbed.
She's off to the vet tonight for another steroid injection in case it's meningitis and is going to continue on oral antibiotics a bit longer.
Will post how we get on.
 
hi Crispy minstrel, Well there are some good suggestions already as to what might be the problem, which should be addressed. But just in case it turns out to be none of the below, here are another couple. Poisoning and worrying. Are you or is anyone near you using rat poison? The stuff is often sold tied up in little bags which are totaly lethal and this practice should have been banned ages ago. The rats drag them about for up to twenty yards and nible bits and leave a trail of poison exposed for anything to eat. Also some kitchen waste can be poisonous to chicken. Avoid giving them dairy products or a lot of fat.
Can you hear your chicken if they start screechig in the night? Rats stoats or weasels can sometimes 'worry' at chicken during the night, which, like mites can leave them weakened.
 
Sorry for the slow response-managed to break my router putting up Christmas decs-don't ask!
The vet thinks it's a virus and she had another steroid inj last Friday. She's still on oral antibiotics but is finishing soon.We do live next door to a barn which has rats in it and although my hens can't reach the poison I put down I will need to ask the farmer.My hen house is secure so I doubt anything could get in to "worry"them.
I only feed them vegetables, corn and layers pellets-they are free range.
She continues to feed,drink and pass it out the other end normally.
I've given her a "hospital wing"in the garden so she can get outside and scratch about. At times she appears normal-walking round, feeding all with normal posture but this head swinging,star gazing just starts when she is not moving and particularly when disturbed. When I went in to give her her night time antibiotics all would be quiet but as soon as I put the light on the head movements started quite violently. My question is this-If she doesn't improve is it cruel to keep her? We wouldn't get rid of a human with a neurological deficit would we?
 
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