Starting out. HELP!

[DippyEgg]

We are thinking of getting chickens - a Rhode Island, a Sussex and two snowy whites. As newbies to chicken keeping we have several questions that hopefully someone will be able to help with.
1. What is a snowy white? We have not been able to track the breed down on line.
2. A neighbour has said that she will look after them when we go on holiday. She will put them with her bantams. Will they all get on okay - especially the larger hens with the bantams?
3. The birds we may get are about 1.5 years old. We will be re-homeing them. Will they be able to adapt well to the change in living conditions? At the moment they have more freedom to roam than they will get with us due to the size of the garden, and will they adapt well to having young children around? 0

 

[chrismahon]

Welcome to the forum and chicken keeping Dippy Egg.

To answer your questions in turn:-
1. No idea what a Snowy White is as I have never heard of them. Might be a White Star hybrid. Perhaps someone else on the forum knows.
2. No, you can't mix them like that. They form their own very territorial flocks and will fight. The bantams won't necessarily come off worst. Integrating flocks successfully takes time and patience. Your neighbour will have to let them out, feed and clean them and lock them up at night where they are.
3. Children won't be a problem as long as they are taught how to pick them up correctly, or to leave them alone. Moving home can cause a lot of stress for chickens, particularly when going into a smaller area. It will all be different for them and they will respond by not laying until they have adjusted. Some may not eat for a while but at least they know each other. Generally they will have settled in two weeks. Sometimes they can be ill, but that's unlikely in your case with moving a well established flock.

Sure you will have loads more questions when they arrive -feel free to ask, that's what the forum is for. Enjoy the eggs!

 

[Marigold]

I agree wih Chris that 'snowy white' is not a breed but a description of several kinds of white hybrids. I have an all-white Silver Star hybrid, and you can also get White Stars which as Chris says are a Leghorn hybrid that lays large white eggs. Sussex are purebreds which will have a different laying pattern to the others, ie they may not lay so regularly but may go on for longer. Pure RIR is also a purebred, but many brown hens are actually RIR crosses ie hybrids also. There are loads of other attractive and delightful breeds that are very suitable for the garden and if you Google you will find details of lots of them.

Yes as Chris says you DEFINITELY can't put your hens in with the neighbours'. Not only will they fight but they may either transmit or pick up infestations or disease to or from the other flock. Moving home is very stressful for chickens, even when done properly, and this stress leaves them open to going down with illnesses they might otherwise resist. Both flocks would probably go off lay, and yours would take longer to get back to normal because they would have a second move back to your place at the end of the holiday.If your neighbour has suggested this idea, maybe she doesn't actually know that much about chickens herself! It's good to consider the problem of who will look after them, though - maybe you and your neighbour can do what my friend and I do, ie we just go round and look after each other's birds when we go away.
If starting out again, personally I would go for a selection of point of lay (POL) hybrids about 16-18 weeks old, ie with a few weeks to grow and settle in with you before they start to lay. If you take on older birds, their best laying days will be already over and you may be importing other health problems you could probably avoid with young vigorous stock from a helpful breeder. You will also need to consider carefully how to house them, ie a strong foxproof run is essential, large enough to give a minimum of 2 sq. metres per bird, and also a good-quality coop of suitable size and design. There are lots of threads on here about these things, we are always nattering about this!
Good luck with your interesting venture and do keep on asking those questions, welcome to the Forum, we shall like to hear from you.

 

[Chuck]

I agree - there's no such breed as a snowy white.

You will definately not be able to mix yours and the neighbours stock during holiday periods as they will fight.

Children and chickens need time to adjust to one another.

If you are taking these older hens because the present owner is giving up, I'd say give it a whirl but if they are only part of the present owners stock then I'd say for definate, seek out some young stock which are near to laying, all form the same place and same pen so no fighting and no disease risk and enjoy the whole of their productive life. It is not easy for any hens to adjust to living quarters smaller than they have been used to.

How much space will they have ?

 

[DippyEgg]

Thanks for the replies, we're thinking of housing them in a Cocoon cc2100, this will give approximately 2sqm of run space with the house above. They will have supervised access in the small garden. Are the Cocoon brand ok or could anyone recommend another brand with similar spec. We have to be narrow in our choices due to the small garden.
We do have a free range rabbit, who is locked up at night, will the chickens be ok with her?

 

[Marigold]

There was a thread recently about cocoon coops, see http://poultrykeeperforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5941&hilit=cocoon+coops
where several people gave feedback, mostly unfavourable I'm afraid. 2 sq. metres of run space is what is the minimum for one hen, and you obviously cant just keep one. This is the problem with coops with attached runs. You would be much better off if you considered putting in a fixed run and getting a freestanding coop. Even if you let them out into the garden for part of the day, the stresses of close confinement in too small a space will mean that problems are likely to arise ie bullying, feather pecking etc. Also a very small run gets incredibly filthy in a very short time.

 

[foxy]

I agree, the coop you are looking at is too small, barely enough room for one hen. It is 6.8ft x by almost 3ft that includes the nestbox on the length and overhang of the roof on the width. Inside which you will need space for a feeder and drinker.
Even with supervised access it will not be enough, you will soon be faced with behavioural and health issues as the birds become bored and stressed. In fact problems can arise with them pacing up and down when they see you walking up the garden and expect to be let out.

 

[Marigold]

Maybe, with your small garden, you could avoid future problems by scaling down your ideas a bit? It sounds as if you won't be able to provide a run at least 8 sq metres in area which would be the minimum for 4 large hens. If you went for 2-3 small bantams you might be able to get away with 4-6 metres of run space but any less would be asking for various kinds of trouble - whatever the sellers of coops+runs on e-bay would like to tell you otherwise.
Also though I expect some people are able to get rabbits and chickens to co-exist, this too sounds like an unlikely plan to me. Unless you've actually kept chickens you may not realise how aggressive they can be to anything they regard as an intruder or as legitimate prey and your bunny might come off worst, especially if space was an issue.
Sorry if all this sounds a bit gloomy, but it's best to find out these aspects before rather than after, to avoid problems.

 

[DippyEgg]

Thanks again for your replies.
Update - We've had a shuffle round in the garden and can get a bigger coop and a run which we can extend. With regards to the 4 chickens we've changed our minds and are hopefully going for 3 new ones at POL; we're looking at breeds, buff orpington, gingernut and miss pepperpot. All chosen for their placid natures. We haven't got/ordered anything as yet so if anyone has views on our choice of chickens with regards to their suitability, coping with children, please let us know. Taken on board what was said about the rabbit we will sepaerate and supervise all livestock.

 

[Marigold]

The Gingernut Ranger is a brown bird, Rhode Island Red X Light Sussex, and Miss Pepperpot is a black bird with some brown feathers. Pepperpots are a RIR X Marans X Sussex breed also known as Bovans Nera or Rhode Rock. Both are reliable egglaying hybrids, very handsome, as you say very calm and will lay well, as will most hybrids. Buff Orpingtons are purebreds, and will probably not lay so consistently, or give such large eggs, as most modern Orpingtons have been bred for appearance rather than for eggs, They are lovely. but they are quite a bit larger than the normal hybrids, so if space is not ideal maybe a smaller breed might be a good idea? Also they may not be able to perch successfully as they are quite heavy and may prefer to roost on the floor of the coop, which has itss disadvantages.
If you went for all hybrids you would be more likely to be able to get them all at the same time and from the same place, which is a big help when integrating new chickens, especially as, with only three, from two suppliers, you would finish up with a single one which would be even harder to integrate with the other two. Also, if you do get them from different places, you would need to separate the two batches for a couple of weeks as a quarantine measure, because the stress of moving home can lower their immune systems and they are more likely to go down with any health problems that the other lot had brought with them. A purebred chicken is not so likely to be vaccinated as the hybrids, and there is the possibility that mixing unvaccinated and vaccinated birds may in itself be problematic, although in most cases this is OK. So there are possible health and social problems which you can avoid if you only get them from one place and at the same time. Furthermore, because purebreds are mostly hatched in Feb-March, point of lay pullets are not available until July - August at the earliest, and you may want your birds before then. Hybrids are usually available all the year round because many of them are reared commercially under cover in the autumn and winter and so are ready for sale from Feb. onwards.

 

[chrismahon]

Hi Dippyegg. Orpingtons are very placid, but as Marigold says, some strains are are poor layers. We bought Buff Orpinton show strain hens which fortunately laid 200 each in their first year. There are strains out there that will only do 50. Unfortunately they were quite small eggs (50 grammes). But when we crossed a 'Utility' strain of Buff Orpington (Bottom) with them we got 200 a year large eggs (65 grammes). So we were very lucky, as we didn't ask the right questions when we bought the mothers. Very tame they are as well. Downsides, two of three are broody at the moment, they get wet more than others in rain and they do get their very fluffy bums messed up so need washing regularly. But they are lovely, especially when they are broody (just a big ball of growling feathers) and I wouldn't be without them.