Sour crop?

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We have kept hens for over a year without any health problems but more recently, in the last two months, we have lost three hens with the symptoms of sour crop. Two of the three were just under two and a half years old and the other one was just over one and a half years old. We have not changed their diet – they are fed layers pellets, they free range most of the daytime and, although they don’t seem to eat the oystershell that I bought recently, they eat plenty of grit from the drive. I really cannot understand why we suddenly have a problem, and I’m reluctant to buy more hens until I understand! Any ideas?
 
Hello, do they get lots of bread/treats? live yoghurt is very good for sour crop- garlic also- if you crush a clove and mix it with a small amout of live yoghurt and try to get them to eat that- if you have experience you can syringe it down their throats but only if you know what your doing- otherwise take them to a vet. If caught early enough sour crop is not fatal- you just need to catch it early- and if you are feeding bread, please dont- the yeast can start fermenting resulting in sour crop.
regards, David :)
 
We don't give any treats. It may seem mean, but I understand that these may sometimes do more harm than good. Other than layers pellets, its only grass and whatever else they can find in the garden. In the case of the first poorly hen we tried live yoghurt, but without crushed garlic, and in the latest case we tried live yoghurt with crushed garlic. Whilst the healthy hens loved it, we had to use a syringe for the poorly hens, but in each case the poorly hen died. Perhaps we didn't realise soon enough for it to be treated successfully. If it was sour crop in each case, what could be the cause?
 
Hello, you did , i take it,syringe it down their throat and not their windpipe? As for 3 hens suffering, that is very unusual- i have only had one hen in forty years with it. I can't think of a specific cause, sorry i know that's not what your looking for :( You may have just been very unlucky- there is nothing to suggest your next hens will suffer the same fate. I just wish i could be of more help!
regards, David :)
 
Ditto Davidd about syringing down their throat not their windpipe. If down their windpipe it could have a bad outcome. I have posted at length about sour crop/impacted crop on the forum so try a search and see what turns up.

It could be any number of things. They may be eating something that isn't agreeing with them. Grass that is too long may cause big problems as it cannot easily be broken down. Bread as has been said also is not good.

It may be you are not noticing quickly enough your birds are having problems and by the time you do realise something is amiss the crop contents have fermented and infection has spread elsewhere into their system. If this is the case then a trip to the vets for some medication may help but it may not save them by this point. If caught in the first 3 days recovery is usually good. If longer than this often it can be too late to save the bird regardless (at least my understanding of and a long convo with a vet who knows lots about chooks/birds)

It is very unusual for 3 birds to suffer the same thing like this. It usually is more of a one off incident and often doesn't affect a poultry keeper for many years. I've had 2 cases of it in my flock over the years that caused the death of the bird (well, dispatched in the end). But both cases were a long time apart.

Live yogurt is only going to help if it actually is sour crop and the contents have been drained out as far as possible. Otherwise its all going to sit there and not be able to do much. Did you empty your chooks crops before giving yogurt? I've written an at length explanation how to do this elsewhere on the forum btw.

It is hard to know for sure if sour crop really was to blame as it really is unusual to hear of it killing 3 birds so close together. In fact I've never heard of this. What were the symptoms?
 
I feel guilty now that I may be responsible for their demise rather than their recovery.

I just opened the beak and syringed a little at a time for the hen to swallow and then repeated until about 10ml had gone. Could this have gone down the windpipe?

The three poorly hens were spread over two months. I first realised that something was wrong when the hens stopped laying. Some days or even weeks later they looked sorry for themselves with head down, hunched back, tail down, wings down and sitting around rather than scratching about as usual. Then I noticed that the hens were drinking profusely but were not eating and that the crop was large and squishy. At this point I emptied the crop as far as possible and administered the live yoghurt with crushed garlic. Finally, the hens were completely lethargic with closing eyes and they didn’t go back to the ark at night time.

Although I have one hen that is still laying, I have another that isn’t, and I am concerned that she may develop the same symptoms.

Could this be something other than sour crop?
 
It doesn't really sound like sour crop to me. Not if they went on over a period of weeks. Their symptoms sound like a general decline in health that could be caused by various non specific things. If they went on into weeks then the stopping eating and only drinking may have led to their crops being squishy but there may have been an underlying problem and it might not have been sour crop.

When checking a chooks crop you need to do so in the morning before letting them out to feed. Overnight a chook should be able to disgest the contents of the crop so it should feel flatter (tho often not totally flat) and you should be able to gently feel around it and feel its is empty. If it has contents in, it will feel like either undigested food or if squishy you can then have a smell of the chooks breath and see if it smells nasty which would indicate sour crop.

If there is then a crop problem you would need to empty the crop properly (again, something I've written about at length elsewhere on the forum) holding the bird upside down and so on. Only when you have emptied the crop contents should you then try to give yogurt. TBH most birds will peck at it anyways once their crop is cleared out so worth letting them try on their own. If the sour crop or impacted crop has been going on more than a few days often medication is needed. I usually have had my chooks injected over the liquid in the dropper. Vet does this. As to if it then prevents it continuing or spreading and causing secondary infection elsewhere is really anyones guess. It depends on the bird really.

Regarding the windpipe, yes it may have done. Who knows, so don't beat yourself up about it. You need to be careful when syringing as it can go down the wrong way and not be nice for the chook. I'd always advise to either see it done and have it shown or read up carefully on it and which bit is which so you know where to aim.

I'd check your hens this evening once they have roosted and gently feel round their crop area. This will give you an idea of how their crops are before bedtime. Then in the morning before they eat or drink anything feel their crops again and see if they have digested their food. If they have then you can rule out there being a crop problem with any of your remaining birds and look at other areas of health.

Let us know how you get on with the crops tomorrow :)
 
Thanks for all the advice. As you suggest, there may be an underlying problem that has led to the decline in health of the birds. I just wish I could figure out the underlying problem!

They all seemed to come through the moult and start laying again but since then they have, in turn, stopped laying and gone into decline - except for Marigold, who is still laying the perfect large egg!

Violet laid eggs without shells on Monday and Tuesday, and I also found a slightly sandy feeling membrane in the garden. At first glance it looked like a piece of discarded chewing gum! Although she has always been inconsistent with the size and quality of her eggs, I'm concerned that she may also be in decline.

I'll check their crops this evening, and again tomorrow morning, and then report back.
 
Can I just ask what breed your hens are? If ex batts then their decline is probably more readily explained in that their bodies are often simply worn out from intensive egg laying and many often do tend to fade away like this.
 
None of the hens were ex-battery. The two surviving hens are Goldline hybrid that we had at POL February 2009 (and now little more than one and a half years old).

One of the three lost to illness was the same as the two surviving hens, whilst the other two were Lohmann hybrid free range hens rescued at 72 weeks in May 2009 (and would now have been just under two and a half years old).
 
I checked their crops yesterday evening, once they had roosted, and they both felt slightly smaller than a tennis ball and fairly firm. When I checked them again this morning, before anything to eat and drink, both seemed pretty flat and I couldn't really feel anything.

Although it seems that these two hens don't have a crop problem, as you suggest, there may be an underlying problem that I haven't identified.

Marigold is still laying as usual, and yesterday Violet laid a very large soft-shelled egg, which is an improvement on the previous two days. Let's hope that there isn't an underlying problem and that we can safely consider having a few more Lohmann hybrid at POL in August.
 
I'd say is defo not a crop problem.

Them not laying or having shell less eggs could be any number of reasons. Soft shelled is often an indication of needing oyster shell in their diet.

I don't really know the hybrids breeds you are keeping. If they are generally bred with the intention of intensive egg laying for their first year and then are usually culled by the farms it may be they are simply getting old in terms of their breed. Intensive egg layers are not usually long lived and often in rehomed battery birds egg production does drop a great deal after the first year.

I'd consider perhaps getting pure bred birds with a good egg production but obviously not as high as your current ones. I think my old Marans used to lay about 260 a year. Chances are they won't start to fade away after a couple of years.

FWIW I've kept rescue battery hens and most of them only lasted a couple of years after their year on the farm. Most went into gradual decline with no specific illness, just slowly faded away and died. They were well cared for and running with Marans of which I didn't lose any.

I don't think its anything you are doing, just may be the birds are worn out from the egg laying and bodies not able to keep up. Even in pet conditions I'd expect their egg production to be high as they have been bred to lay lots of eggs.

Good luck with them and let us know how you get on :)
 
They eat the grit from our drive but, although they now have access to oystershell grit, I've only ever seen them pick up the pieces and drop them down again! As they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink! Any ideas?
 
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