Rat Problem!

[Marigold]

One last point from me - we once had a bird feeding station similar to yours, with a 2-metre high pole and feeders hanging from arms like a sort of tree. We live near to grain storage barns, so in winter rats do tend to spread out and visit the neighbourhood. We sat in our living room and watched the rats climb the pole, shimmy down the chains and eat from the feeders. If your feeders are low enough for the hens to use, they will be a gift for the rats.

 

[Icemaiden]

Woodruffsdad.
While it's not a complete solution, can I suggest that, in addition to changing over to treadle feeders, you invest in some ultrasonic rodent repellers?
These don't hurt anything, but just encourage the rats / mice / squirrels etc to move elsewhere (apologies to your neighbours!!)
They emit a sound that the rats don't like (they repel rats the way that house music repels me...). I use them to discourage squirrels from nesting in my roof space & chewing through our cables. They're not hideously expensive & should leave your conscience clear.

 

[woodruffsdad]

Woodruffsdad.
While it's not a complete solution, can I suggest that, in addition to changing over to treadle feeders, you invest in some ultrasonic rodent repellers?
These don't hurt anything, but just encourage the rats / mice / squirrels etc to move elsewhere (apologies to your neighbours!!)
They emit a sound that the rats don't like (they repel rats the way that house music repels me...). I use them to discourage squirrels from nesting in my roof space & chewing through our cables. They're not hideously expensive & should leave your conscience clear.

Great idea. I also thought of humane traps to rehome my furry friends several miles away in a disused quarry.

I have also invested in a Wise Mountable Feeder for the hens layers pellets.

 

[Icemaiden]

Good luck with the humane traps. I'd be interested to hear how well they work with rats; please let us know.

I tried several kinds of humane traps on our mice but think that they must be be MENSA mambers- I'd catch one or two mice in any given trap & then word would get around, and the traps would be avoided from then on, whatever I baited them with. One of the traps featured a seesaw type device, & the mice appeared to have worked as a team to free their furry friend!!

Oh, & I ought to gently remind you that releasing live rats (or grey squirrels) into the wild is illegal, though I confess to having released a baby squirrel myself, as I didn't have the heart to kill it when it wandered into my kitchen.

 

[valeriebutterley]

I have just been reading this post with growing horror at just what rats can do and the diseases they spread.
I thought that ultrasonic repellers cannot hurt anyway, and that I might invest in some, then it occurred to me as I read that these things are advertised as scaring cats, dogs, squirrels and other creatures away.
I really don't know anything about chicken's hearing, would they disturb the girls that they are protecting from nasties?
I would be grateful if anyone can help me on this, sorry to be so dim, but if they scare away all the things it says on the label, I don't see why chickens can be exempt!.

 

[chrismahon]

I know chickens hearing is very acute Valerie, but at what frequencies it operates between I don't know. I think the assumption that they will hear the units because everything else can is a good one. Presumably these repellers are just for keeping pests off your veg patch?

 

[Marigold]

If effective long-term (which I doubt) wouldn't sonic deterrents just move the rats away until they were out if earshot, i.e., on to your next door neighbour's garden? I wouldn't feel at all happy about this, it would feel irresponsible to me to opt out of a problem which had been attracted by my chickens, and which might well return to plague me when they bred in a nearby garden and then spread out again back home to my patch.
The same things apply to using humane traps and taking the rats out into the countryside, either they would succeed, breed there and plague the farmers (who would undoubtedly kill them in most unpleasant ways) or they would fail to find food and die anyway. How would you feel if someone caught rats on their land, and released them in your garden?
Sorry- I think that, in domestic gardens where you keep chickens, the only good rat is a dead rat! Yes its unpleasant whatever you do, but in the 24 days we have been discussing this, their numbers will have doubled. Or trebled ......

 

[woodruffsdad]

The black rat (Rattus rattus) is often blamed for spreading the Black Death - this was actually spread by fleas, which lived on humans, dogs, cats, etc. as well as rats. Contrary to popular belief, rats are not 'dirty' - they are in fact extremely clean animals, and spend around a third of their lives grooming themselves. Some wild rats can carry disease, but this is true of most wild animals - a fluffy little bunny or cute little badger cub is just as likely to be carrying something nasty as a rat is, and in most cases close contact with an infected animal is required in order for someone to catch the disease (for example, with leptospirosis, one must get the animal's urine into an open cut). The animal most likely to carry diseases and spread them to humans are other humans.

Number of people killed by rats in UK since 2005: Nil.
Number of people attacked by rats in UK since 2005: Nil.

Number of people killed by dogs in UK since 2005: 17.
Number of people attacked by dogs in UK since 2005: 200,000.
Cost of dog attacks to the NHS: £3million.

Should everyone have their pet dogs put down?

 

[valeriebutterley]

My post was not meant to imply that I was overrun with rats, or that I intended to distribute them willy nilly towards my neighbours.
In 40 years of living in my home I have seen 1 rat dead on the road, and 1 live one that the cat chased into the utility room, and then chased out.
At the bottom of the garden though, here has been some minor tunnelling recently that is not the fox, and I wondered if it was a rat.
I have no other idea of what it might be, has anyone?

 

[3441sussex]

The black rat (Rattus rattus) is often blamed for spreading the Black Death - this was actually spread by fleas, which lived on humans, dogs, cats, etc. as well as rats. Contrary to popular belief, rats are not 'dirty' - they are in fact extremely clean animals, and spend around a third of their lives grooming themselves. Some wild rats can carry disease, but this is true of most wild animals - a fluffy little bunny or cute little badger cub is just as likely to be carrying something nasty as a rat is, and in most cases close contact with an infected animal is required in order for someone to catch the disease (for example, with leptospirosis, one must get the animal's urine into an open cut). The animal most likely to carry diseases and spread them to humans are other humans.

You copied this paragraph word for word from the answer given on Yahoo 6 years ago by a Zookeeper who had kept pet rats for 20 years. Why did you not copy his first paragraph in which he wrote:

'The only way a rat could kill a human is if the human was lying on the floor, completely paralysed, and the rat gnawed away at his/her throat for a couple of hours until it had cut through the jugular vein - and since a rat has no reason to do this, it would never happen. Rats have very strong incisors, and can draw blood if they bite you, but unless you have a severe case of haemophilia there is no way this could result in death. Rats are shy, wary, and very intelligent animals - they would not be foolish enough to attack something so much larger than they are. Cornered rats are sometimes reported as leaping for people's throats - what they are actually doing is trying to escape by leaping for the open space over the person's shoulder'.

As you can see he states that it is impossible for a rat to attack and kill a healthy human. Therefore, your statistics comparing dog attacks with rat attacks are meaningless and ridiculous.

Andy Holmes, the Olympic rowing gold medallist died of Weil's disease (Leptospirosis) which is a rare but potentially fatal water-borne bacterial infection linked with the urine of infected rats. He was not actually attacked by a rat, but as good as.

You need to rid your garden of rats, but not at the expense of the health of your neighbours or other people living near where you intend to dump them.

 

[woodruffsdad]

The paragraph I quoted may be 6 years old but it remains true. Do you dispute facts?

My other statistics are not meaningless, they are facts! Taken from official figures THIS YEAR and published nationally.

You cannot escape the fact that in recent years (possibly decades) rats have NOT been responsible for any human deaths or injury whereas dogs have certainly been guilty of both.

My (non-religious) views are that every creature on this planet, including rats, wasps, foxes, badgers etc. etc. have a purpose of some sort from cleaning up dead bodies to removing rotting fruit and that we persecute them at our long term peril. I do not kill ANY living creature either for food or for "fun" or for a misguided sense of necessity.

I have no doubt that the same people who wish to destroy rats are the same people who would like to see the reintroduction of hunting with hounds!

 

[3441sussex]

Number of people killed by rats in UK since 2005: Nil.
Number of people attacked by rats in UK since 2005: Nil.

Number of people killed by dogs in UK since 2005: 17.
Number of people attacked by dogs in UK since 2005: 200,000.

These statistics are more than likely correct, but you comparing the two sets of statistics is what is meaningless and ridiculous. You cannot compare the behaviour of a wild animal that is scared of humans to that of a domestic dog. Rats do not physically attack people. Some mismanaged dogs do physically attack people. A lot of people must go to their GP with dog bites, but I cannot imagine that GPs meet many people who have been bitten by a wild rat.

It is thought that the black death was carried by Oriental rat fleas living on the black rats that came over on merchant ships from Central Asia. The fleas would not have been able to spread the black death without the help of the rats carrying them to Europe on the ships!

Dogs are vaccinated against diseases (including Leptospirosis) and cause injury or death through physical attack. It is a fact that wild rats cause illness and death through disease and not through physical attack.

If you are so keen on rats why not fence them in and enjoy their company. You could even start a rat sanctuary for other people who share your beliefs.

 

[woodruffsdad]

But the whole point, which you concede, is that dogs are infinitely more dangerous to humans than rats.

I rest my case!

 

[3441sussex]

My (non-religious) views are that every creature on this planet, including rats, wasps, foxes, badgers etc. etc. have a purpose of some sort from cleaning up dead bodies to removing rotting fruit and that we persecute them at our long term peril. I do not kill ANY living creature either for food or for "fun" or for a misguided sense of necessity.

I just pointed out that comparing physical dog and rat injury/death statistics is meaningless and ridiculous. Dogs are more dangerous physically than rats, but rats are more dangerous as disease carriers than dogs. Dogs are domestic animals. Rats are wild animals and out of control.

I take it that if you have a red mite infestation you will sacrifice your hens and watch them slowly and painfully die because it is nature taking its course and against your beliefs to kill the red mite.

I take it you don’t de-flea or worm your cats either or are you in reality a hypocrite?

 

[woodruffsdad]

My (non-religious) views are that every creature on this planet, including rats, wasps, foxes, badgers etc. etc. have a purpose of some sort from cleaning up dead bodies to removing rotting fruit and that we persecute them at our long term peril. I do not kill ANY living creature either for food or for "fun" or for a misguided sense of necessity.

I just pointed out that comparing physical dog and rat injury/death statistics is meaningless and ridiculous. Dogs are more dangerous physically than rats, but rats are more dangerous as disease carriers than dogs. Dogs are domestic animals. Rats are wild animals and out of control.

I take it that if you have a red mite infestation you will sacrifice your hens and watch them slowly and painfully die because it is nature taking its course and against your beliefs to kill the red mite.

I take it you don’t de-flea or worm your cats either or are you in reality a hypocrite?

I thought that this was a forum where people asked for and got help in poultry matters. I did not subscribe to this to have my sincerely held views rubbished or to be called a "hypocrite" by someone hiding behind a cloak of anonymity.

Comparing the statistics I quoted is NOT meaningless or ridiculous. Dogs kill and injure more humans than rats do. Fact!

I now consider this matter closed as certain posters (you know who you are) are becoming personal and insulting.

 

[3441sussex]

I thought that this was a forum where people asked for and got help in poultry matters.

Okay then, Woodruffsdad. If I get a red mite in my chicken house what advice would you give me to deal with the problem?

 

[dinosaw]

You are indeed correct Woodruffsdad this is a forum where people ask for and are given help in poultry matters. On 20th March you asked for advice and were given sound correct advice by people with evidently more experience of rat infestations and what their effects can be on poultry than yourself. Whether you chose to take that advice was of course your decision. You chose not to take that advice which is fine, but also to inform us of your personal beliefs which ran counter to the advice given and as has become obvious the beliefs of some other posters. I think it is a bit rich to complain about your beliefs being challenged when you have effectively foisted them on us, you are entitled to your views but I am not sure the general chickens forum is the place to air them, I myself would consider using the general chatter at the bottom of the page instead for such things.

 

[valeriebutterley]

If you had ever had to pick up the remains of twelve much loved chickens, woodruffsdad, wantonly killed by a fox, murdered?, for his love of killing, not to feed his family, and then tell two young granddaughters, that their beloved hens were amongst the mass slaughter, perhaps you might begin to think,
as I do, that hunting helped keep down numbers of these extremely cruel creatures.
I started by wondering what was digging/tunnelling at the bottom of my garden, and am still wondering.......................!!!!
Could it be a stoat or mink? - even a coypu.

 

[3441sussex]

I started by wondering what was digging/tunnelling at the bottom of my garden, and am still wondering.......................!!!!
Could it be a stoat or mink? - even a coypu.

What about rabbits?

 

[valeriebutterley]

Sussex 3441,
I did not even think of sweet bunnies in my garden!
Have never seen sight of a rabbit, in darkest Camberley, but anything is possible, all I know is that it is not the fox. However he is back again, tunnelling under a coop with three hens in, two Pekins, and my beautiful blue Cornish game girl, only last night. Their hatch was closed, but they must have been quaking in their fluffy knickers to hear him underneath in THEIR space.
Any men in red coats about?
In a road in Newquay I once saw a beautiful rabbit, huge, black and white, which seemed quite tame, my friend Sheila said there were three of them in the road, all wild, all escapees, and they just appeared every so often in the road, so maybe it is possible I have a similar situation here.