Quail eggs

[Marigold]

That looks much more suitable for them. Certainly with CPQs you could fit far more in there than you will hatch in one go with a small incubator. With a similar sized run I have had 6 very happy coturnix with plenty of space and I could have added more if I had wanted but I just didn't need any more eggs! With .c.p.qs I don't think you need to worry so long as they have at least 1 sq. ft of run space each, though with all poultry of any kind the more the better of course. A decent- sized run like that one will have access from the top, which is handy when wanting to get in there to top up the feed or catch a bird. I recently lost one of mine when she flew up unexpectedly and disappeared into the hedge, but usually they remain calm if they are used to you coming at them from above and you only move slowly and gently. As you will know, though, they do take off upwards with alarming speed when frightened.
Tbh, I think that you could keep up to a dozen CPQs in a smaller run than this, which would mean it would be easier to move it on every day or so. The clean grass is more important than lots of space I think.
The best kind of drinker for them is the one with a small lip which projects through the mesh and a reservoir outside. I have far more of these than I shall ever use so if you haven't got any already, you might like to PM me with your address and I will happily send you a couple. Some people give them a rabbit bottle but with a cage bird drinker type they do get a chance to get a proper beakful in the natural way, without banging away at a bottle all the time. An open drinker is no good, they just poo in it all the time.

 

[Seal36]

That's good I was thinking of putting 8 quail in the hutch and run as it's a nice number and they should still have a nice amout of room to run around in. I will pm you as those drinkers sound perfect and where is the cheapest place to get a brinsea mini advance incubator from Tom

 

[Marigold]

Thanks for the pm I will see to it next week. You could try eBay for a secondhand Brinsea, or if you are checking prices on Google be aware that firms often offer identical new stock on eBay cheaper than on their own website. Or try advertising in the Wanted column here, and also register with Practical Poultry forum which is bigger than this one and has an equipment wanted section. Don't you think the one you've been lent is suitable, then?
I would just try putting a dozen eggs in the inci, or 13 in the Brinsea with the quail ring, and see how many you get.

 

[Seal36]

Thanks for that and I was wondering what you feed your quail seed wise as I was given seeds with them and I am running out of it and don't know what it is. I have attached a picture of the seeds that I have been feeding them as I hope you can tell what they are or seeds that are like them from Tom

It was too big for me to attach it so here's the link to the picture: http://s909.photobucket.com/albums/ac297/Seal360000/?action=view¤t=ce5607b2f808b699c9db9a27f9996573_zps4d7550ab.jpg&evt=user_media_share

Also do quail form pairs as I have 3 boys and 3 girls and there are defiantly two pairs as they constantly hang around together and how can I confirm if they are defiantly pairs from Tom

 

[Marigold]

Baby quail need chick crumb for the first few weeks as not only is it the right size of granules but its high in protein and has all the other stuff they need for phenomenally fast growth. I used to feed my adult quail on Garvo Alfamix for Chicks which was a lovely mix of little grains, tiny pellets and crustaceans, but my local Garvo supplier stopped stocking it, so now mine get hens layers pellets with some sunflower seeds mixed in to increase the protein levels, also some dried mealworms every day which they love. Of course mine are in constant lay so need the extra calcium in layers pellets, but if they were not in lay I expect I would probably feed either growers pellets or chick crumb, or a mixture of both. There are places that sell quail feed but it's very expensive with the postage and all the coturnix keepers I know about seem to feed chicken food plus extras. I have added mixed bird seed sometimes but found they left a lot of the seeds they didn't like. Also they get daily greens even when out in grass - they like Romaine lettuce best, with the dark green large leaves, but anything from a salad bag goes down well. They don't seem to eat cabbage like the hens do.
I don't know much about CPQs as I've only kept coturnix, and in this species more than one male to a group will fight (this is why I only keep females, much more peaceful.) but people on here who do keep CPQs do talk of how theirs bond for life and are very affectionate, though the advice generally given is to have about 3+ girls per male as otherwise they may get a bit worn out by his living attentions. When you say there are two pairs and you have 6 birds, what do the other 2 do?

 

[Seal36]

The other 2 just walk around me don't seem to have bonded together. Also I have some questions about my new brinsea incubator.

1. What should the turning angle be set at ( it does it for how long the motor runs for and it's between 1-20 seconds and default is at 5 seconds)
2. How often should they be automatically turned. I thought 1 hour but I'm not sure. I can set it from (180-30 min)
3. Do I want the cooling option on
4. If so how long should the cooling period be for the lowest it can be is 60 and highest is 240 min so not sure if that's a good idea or not
5. Do I set the days to 16 days.
Thanks for all the help from Tom

 

[Marigold]

Yours is obviously a later model than mine, which didn't have the cooling period, this is new, but yes, use it if its available. One hour between turning will be fine. As the eggs are so tiny you don't want a long turning option so set it to the minimum, which should turn them about 1/3 per go. Once you have started it up, you can watch and see how far it turns them. The quail ring just supports the eggs in place and they turn by being pushed along and round on the immobile base plate. Set it to 16 days, which is the incubation period for CPQs and then it will stop turning probably at 14 days. Then you can remove the turning ring and arrange the eggs on a grippy soft surface ready for hatching, and increase the humidity at that point, before lockdown starts.
You could try out the turning beforehand, if you are going to switch it on and test out the temperature etc for a couple of days before the eggs go in. If you don't have a spare quails egg you could perhaps try a marble or a small stone about the same size, just to see how it works. And I have found that the staff at Brinsea HQ are very helpful if you have any queries. I don't know about the best cooling time but I expect they could advise you.
Where did you get a Brinsea from, then, in the end? I'm sure you will be happy with it, and the resale value is high if you decide you don't want to incubate any more in the future. Very reliable little machines.

 

[Seal36]

I am going to test it out before the real eggs go in and I do have a spare egg that I can try the turning mechanism out with. Would it mater if each time it turned the egg it turned it 1/2 rather than 1/3. I got the incubator from eBay new for £118 which I did not think was too bad and they changed the normal ring over for the quail ring for free. The incubator is arriving on Wednesday so I though I would order the eggs on Tuesday night. They would then be shipped on Wednesday and arrive with me on Thursday. I then have to let them stand for 24 hours don't i so they could go in on Friday. Does it have to be exactly 24 hours as if I let them stand from Thursday night at about 5pm could I put the eggs in the incubator on Friday morning.


What can I use for a soft grippy surface?

Thanks for all your help from Tom

 

[Seal36]

Also when changing the eggs from the tray to the soft grippy surface do the eggs need to stay the same way up from Tom

 

[Marigold]

One version of the surface protector is called Slipagrip, from Lakeland see http://www.lakeland.co.uk/8297/Slip-a-Grip/all-reviews
- its a soft plastic mesh that you cut to size and put underneath anything where you want to protect the surface. Probably available locally in a hardware store, or something similar. If you can't get any, try a double layer of j-cloth or cotton cloth, anything that will let their little feet grip without splaying their legs on the slippery plastic surface. Get it cut to size and shape in advance so you can just slip it in when the time comes.
I don't think it matters too much about putting the eggs back in exactly the same orientation as on day 14 they will just be starting to wriggle themselves into the right way up and can finish this once they are rearranged if necessary. Just space them out so they ll have plenty of room. And I think a half turn will be fine, actually they just roll around a bit, I don't think its terribly precise with such tiny eggs.
You were lucky with the incubator, and I do understand your impatience to get going ASAP, but I think you should wait until you actually have the inci and have tested it out before ordering any eggs. Of course its up to you, but if you order the eggs over the weekend for dispatch on Monday, you will have time to test the inci and familiarise yourself with the controls, and if all is well the eggs could go in on Wednesday evening, or better still on Thursday morning , then Thursday will be day 0 and day 16 will be a Saturday. If you don't work on Saturday you can them settle down to watch them hatch. I always tried to time my hatches for when I could make some sandwiches and settle down to the show!
Even with an incubator you know will work its always good practice to run it for 24-48 hours before adding eggs.

 

[Seal36]

I have something like a j cloth at work except it has some little holes in it will that be ok to use. If I had time to wait for the eggs I would but work want to launch the new butterfly house on the 31st of May so the eggs need to go in ASAP. When I get the incubator on Wednesday I will turn it on and then it will be on until Friday morning and that's when I will add the eggs to it so it would be on for 36 hours before the eggs go in. I will attach a photo of the j-cloth things i have at work tomorrow when I have got them. I do have a couple more questions which are.

1. Do I need to disinfect the incubator as this will be the first time it's being used.
2. Do the eggs have to rest for 24 hours before going in or would 16 hours be ok before they go in.
3. How ling after hatching do they need to be in the incubator
4. Can I leave them in the brooder whilst I'm at work
5. Who's long do they need to be in the brooder before they can go outside.
6. If the eggs go in on this Friday the 9th they should hatch around the 25th of May is that correct?
Thanks for all the help from Tom

 

[Marigold]

Yes any sort of porous nonslip cloth will be fine.
Just rest the eggs for as long as you think fit, pointed end down.
They don't need food or water for at least 24 hours after hatching, it's more important to leave them in there for long enough to let the last ones to hatch dry out thoroughly before you open the inci and transfer them to the brooder. Get the brooder really wrm beforehand, use the thermometer to ensure its at least as warm as the incubator and preferably a bit more for the first day. If the brooder is big enough they will tell you if they are too hot by moving out to the edges. Any that haven't hatched could be left for another 24 hours just in case, after you have removed the main batch, but usually they all hatch very fast, encouraged by the cheeping from their brothers and sisters.
Yes they will live in the brooder for the first 2 weeks, then you can transfer to a cage with a bit of heat until they are feathered up properly. Depending on the weather and where you are keeping them, you can gradually reduce the heat as they feather up. Probably it will be best to keep them in at least at night until they're about 5 weeks old, there's no point in risking them getting chilled. Quails are hardy once acclimatised, but you need to be careful when they are not yet fully feathers and not used to outside conditions. If they were chickens and thus bigger birds you could put them out on sunny days and bring them in at night, but is isn't likely to be practical when dealing with tiny little fast-moving bumblebee-type CPQS, unless you have them in a portable cage like a plastic guinea pig one.

 

[Seal36]

Ok thank you for that I will still attach a picture of the clothes I get to make sure that they are ok for them. I might be working on Friday and if I am they will get 24 hours but if not they will have about 16 hours as I think this should be long enough. As they are due to hatch on the 25th of May I was going to turn the heater on in the brooder on the 24th of May.


1. So if there are any unmatched by the 27th of May they are properly infertile as the due date is the 25th of May.
2. What sort of cage do you transfer them to after the second week?
3 when you say gradually decrease the heat do you mean take it down by a couple of Celsius a day?
4. They will be going into a heated butterfly house that does not usually drop below 20C but sometimes gets as low as 15C so at what age could they go in there.
5. There is also a fairly large pond in the butterfly house and I know that young quail quite often drown themselves so what age do they stop doing that and it's safe for them to go into the butterfly house.

Thanks for all the help from Tom

 

[Marigold]

Get the brooder tested and warm well before the hatch is due. Are you going to hang the lamp on a chain so it can be adjusted up or down? I used to get the brooder tested out several days before the hatch was due, as it took me a day or so to work out how much the temperature was likely to drop overnight, and thus how much I should lower the lamp in the evening, - also how I could improve the insulation round the box by installing the radiator lining stuff. I was hatching in February when the house got cold overnight because the heating went off, but there will still be an appreciable drop and you need to do some trial runs, preferably with a max/min thermometer in the box so you can see what the variation is. Its not uncommon for quail to hatch a day early, so you need the brooder well warmed up in case this happens. Also, you need to find a suitable spot in the house - on the upstairs landing was best here, plenty of light during the day as I was using a ceramic lamp which gives them a natural rest in darkness at night, but by this time of year they would have cooked in the sunshine from the window if I had been out all day and unable to adjust the lamp. What sort of lamp will you be using?
Fertilisation is rather hit or miss with quails, probably because their mating is so brief and rough, at least for coturnix, so if you get a 2/3 hatch you will be doing well. But they are easy to hatch if fertile. All mine hatched except ins that had nothing in them when I opened them. No point trying to candle tiny eggs, the disturbance would be bad for them and you wouldn't find out anything useful. You might as well leave the inci running for a day or two after the hatch, and then if no more emerge you can do a postmortem to find if the eggs had anything in them.
Taking them back to the heated butterfly house will be ideal when they are growing, but you will absolutely have to keep them in a cage in there until they are 6 weeks old if you want to see them and check how they are getting on. They are about the size of bumblebees when hatched and I think they'll just disappear into the undergrowth, and probably drown, as you say. I'm also not sure whether the adult quail would attack them. Quail are quite territorial, at least coturnix are, and suspicious of newcomers. Presumably they will have lots of room in the butterfly house so this shouldn't be such a problem. A larger box with a mesh cover on top would do for a couple of weeks but a second hand plastic guinea pig cage would be ideal. They really don't need a lot of room.
I very interested in the butterfly house. You must be getting busy at this time of year. What sorts do you keep? Is it open to the public, if so is there a link to it? I used to take my primary school class to one in the New Forest some years ago but I think that's closed down now.
Drinkers all packed and I will post them today.

 

[Seal36]

Ok I will get the brooder set up on about day 14 it can be adjusted up and down and the light is a 60 want fire-glow red bulb. I was going to put the brooder box next to my Chester draws as it will let some light in but the Chester draws will stop any direct sunlight hitting the tank. Thank you for the information on the hatching. I will find a large box and stick some mesh over it. We keep lots of butterflies and the link is at the bottom of this message. Thank you for sending me the drinker. I have attached a picture of the j cloth things I got and hope they will be ok for the chicks and incubator.


Questions
1. Can the box be made out of cardboard.
2. Can I leave them alone in the brooder whilst I'm at work.
3. If I turn the heater off can they live In the plastic brooder box when they are older.


Brooder box link
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/320882743156?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Butterfly world
http://www.butterflyworldproject.com

Thanks for all your help from Tom

 

[Marigold]

Hi Tom, the brooder looks fine except I don't see how you can adjust the temperature - is the light fixed in place on the base of the box or do you have to hang it over the top so you can move it up and down? Also I couldn't see from the photo in the link whether there's a mesh top on it. You will definitely need this as they are so very active and can fly upwards from a few days old. The cloth will be perfect for the incubator.
A cardboard box will be fine so long as its strong enough and the edges are taped together well. I happened to have just had a new microwave which came in a big box that I used for mine. Yes you can leave them alone in the brooder any time once you have set it up Ok for them. (What else could you do?) You will need a shallow little saucer with some washed gravel in at first so they can drink without drowning - have the water coming up to just below the gravel. After a few days I put in a little chick drinker and I supported this on a bit of concrete tile to raise it up a bit from the floor as they do make it terribly messy. The main problem health wise is infection from their poo getting into the water, and the splashed water making the floor wet. This can lead to an outbreak of coccidiosis if everything isn't kept as clean and dry as possible, because the warm conditions in the brooder are perfect for bacterial growth. If you haven't bought any chick crumb yet, try to get some that is medicated, ie has a coccidiostat in it, as this will help prevent infection. Also check the sellby date as out of date crumb is not good for them. Clean the box out often, twice a day is good, they do poo an awful lot. They don't need anything else to eat at first. The trouble with a box that has got mesh sides is that you can't use the sort of drinker I'm sending you because there's nowhere to fix it through the sides, unless you can somehow make a holder for it.
Butterfly World looks a lovely place to work, and perfect for the quails. Thank you for the link.

 

[Seal36]

You can't adjust the height of the bulb but I was going to wrap towels and stuff like that around it if it was too cold. I have attached a few pictures one is of the brooder the other one is of the incubator and the last one is cinnamon and her bf eating from my hands. It does have plastic locking lids instead of mesh.

Could they live in the brooder instead of a cardboard box.

The brooder has a feeding, drinking plate, anti slip matt and extra light bulb.

I have not get chick crumbs yet so I will get the medicated ones and I have some poultry grower food could they eat that when they are older.
I also know how messy animals can be so I was planning on cleaning them out at least twice a day if not 3 times. Also where do you put the chicks when you are cleaning them out.

Link to cinnamon and bf picture: http://s909.photobucket.com/albums/ac297/Seal360000/?action=view¤t=b1f77ad6be1cc00ff34b602901ef37ac_zps1ca48a4f.jpg&evt=user_media_share

Thanks for all your help from Tom

 

[Marigold]

Ahh dear little things, they are very tame, and so tiny!
I'm sure the brooder will be plenty warm enough, I just wondered if they might get a bit hot, but I expect there will be plenty of room for them to move away. If you think they need more air you could always make a mesh lid as a spare. I think you will just know when they need more room, their behaviour will tell you, but as they will be so weeny I don't think you'll need to worry. Probably staying in the brooder will be fine, as you say. I didn't realise you were getting a lovely purpose built posh one like this, it looks very nice.
Yes cleaning out is a bit of a problem -as I said, I put in several layers of cotton cloth or jcloths, then I just carefully rolled up the top one complete with the mess, being very careful not to roll one of the babies up in it. In the early stages its good not to actually take them out of the brooder more than is essential as they are very jumpy, and can get chilled, but you could put something like woodshavings or Aubiose on the floor instead of cloths and then just pick out the worst of the mess. The cloths rolled up worked for me, but it was only just one of my personal quirky ideas, I don't think anyone else does it! When you do need a thorough cleanup, just get another suitable sized box, with a lid, and pop them in there for a few minutes whilst cleaning out the brooder. However, I did have one very nasty moment when cleaning out my first brood- see this thread http://poultrykeeperforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5765&hilit=terrible
-but hey, don't worry - lets just get some baby quails hatched before we think about such possibilities!

 

[Seal36]

Yes they,are getting quite tame and I have just done a test at 10:15 tonight and the temperature was at 36.5 Celsius and that was with nothing covering the top or outside of the box so if I put 2 or 3 towels over and around it the temperature should be fine for them shouldn't it. I will make a spare mesh lid but I did ask if there is enough air for them and was told that there had been no reports of suffocation. It will be nice to keep them in the brooder.

1. The incubator has 2 water pots when the time comes how much should i fill them up.
2. Should I put the water and food nearer the brooder lamp or towards the colder end.
3. Do I need to disinfect the incubator before using it with the eggs and the incubator is so small it's kind of funny.
4. The adults quail at work get fed a mixture of robin mix seeds and wild bird seeds is that good enough for them.

Thanks for all your help from Tom

 

[Marigold]

Fill the pots about three quarters, but it doesn't matter too much as long as they don't run dry whilst making the air humid for the hatch. Once the air is really humid no more will evaporate.
Food and water position doesn't matter really as your brooder will be warm all over. I wouldn't cover it with anything at night, but I think it may get a bit hot during the day if it has a solid cover on and we get warmer weather.
Good to disinfect the incubator beforehand , although it won't have any bacteria from a previous hatch It still needs to be as sterile as possible, you don't know what it might have picked it during manufacture or in store. Brinsea do a special incubator disinfectant or you could use Poultry Shield if you have this for cleaning up your quail belongings etc. this would also be the right thing to use when cleaning out the brooder every few days, with the babies in another box. Make up a spray bottle of dilute solution, it goes a long way and is designed to be safe for poultry.
I would think the feed at work is fine for them as they also get insects etc from free ranging and don't need the extra calcium in layers pellets which helps to keep my girls in lay. In a cage you can supplement adults with mealworms and sunflower seeds, but the babies should only get crumb until they are about 4 weeks old to support their rapid growth.