Puffy and scaley faced legbar

chrismahon

chrismahon

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Lucy, who is 4, has been moulting but unusually appears in good health and spirits, although a bit slow. Her face started to puff up and we attributed that to an ILT flare up caused by the stress of moulting. But on closer examination today her face has got more swollen and the skin is very flakey both on her face and upper neck. The skin under her feathers is very yellow. Photos attached. She has had Cod Liver Oil with multivitamins which is our instant pick-me-up treatment for most things, but I doubt that is going to help. Has anyone seen this before? What is it and how do you treat it? All the other hens in the coop with her are fine, but she is a bit of a loner sleeping in one of the nest boxes (doesn't poo). No red mite and her poos and crop fine. Had Frontline spray for neck lice about 2 months ago which worked.Lucy Resized.jpgLucy Resized2.jpg
 
is her skin yellow all over or just round her head? what color is the tissue inside her mouth? jaundice? Coryza comes to mind, it has face swelling. also allergy to something could cause this, has she had anything different in her environment bedding/paint/fumes/food/bugs?
 
Avian Rhinotracheitis, Mycoplasmosis, and Avian Metapneumovirus all have face swelling symptoms you could have a look at them and see if any tick your boxes. Avian Infectious Hepatitis has jaundice but nothing about face swelling, but if there is an infection it's possible for there to be edema in some of the extremities. Dunno i'm just flickin through my nursing books. sorry I can't offer more help, if i knew the chicken better maybe :(
 
Nothing new in her environment at all. I am now wondering if the head lice ate the face mite and loose skin before and now they have gone the mite are running free. Inside her mouth is fine -normal colour. Just the skin at the top 1" of the neck is yellow. Might be because she is moulting she is pale anyway, which reveals the natural colour of her skin. But the yellow skin areas are flakey too. Will look at the long named illnesses Steph, otherwise will sponge her face with a solution of Benzol Benzoate Ros.
 
chrismahon said:
Nothing new in her environment at all. I am now wondering if the head lice ate the face mite and loose skin before and now they have gone the mite are running free. Inside her mouth is fine -normal colour. Just the skin at the top 1" of the neck is yellow. Might be because she is moulting she is pale anyway, which reveals the natural colour of her skin. But the yellow skin areas are flakey too. Will look at the long named illnesses Steph, otherwise will sponge her face with a solution of Benzol Benzoate Ros.
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Older layers tend to have a yellowy skin anyway i think more so than younger ones or roos. poor lil babe, hope she comes through. Mite or fungus possibly i guess... just mind you don't get any of the Benzol in her eyes or any open wounds or abrasions as it will be very painful for her. You said she's be treated for ILT? I know it's viral, but did you treat her with any antibiotics recently? could she have a fungal infection on her face? Does she go in the same places as the not-bumble foot hen?
 
She is completely separate to the verruca zone. She contracted ILT from imported hybrids two and a half years ago and it still flares up when stressed -as it does with all those who showed symptoms at the time. She hasn't had antibiotics since the original infection. But now you mention it we have taken Minnie out of that zone and put her in the same coop as Lucy (because of chronic feather loss with amourous Frankie). Whilst she hasn't got a verruca she does use the same end nest box that Lucy sleeps in, so perhaps Minnie is carrying something on her feet? Something else for me to worry about Steph.
 
chrismahon said:
She is completely separate to the verruca zone. She contracted ILT from imported hybrids two and a half years ago and it still flares up when stressed -as it does with all those who showed symptoms at the time. She hasn't had antibiotics since the original infection. But now you mention it we have taken Minnie out of that zone and put her in the same coop as Lucy (because of chronic feather loss with amourous Frankie). Whilst she hasn't got a verruca she does use the same end nest box that Lucy sleeps in, so perhaps Minnie is carrying something on her feet? Something else for me to worry about Steph.
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:-)02
 
As above, mites can cause this, and moulting can also cause strange skin reactions. Although Frontline spray can also cause a reaction, with the alcohol it contains as a carrier for the fipronil. Spraying her neck could have been too close to her face? Where the skin is more sensative. Plus, you may have used it before, but anything can develop an allergic reaction even if you have used a product many times.
If it was fungal, you could try an anti-fungal wash, diluted suitably to use on her face, but my money is also on mites. BB should work, you can buy the new replacement for this from equestrian stores as they still use it for sweetitch. But be careful using it near her eyes.
If it doesn't go down, after treatment, sending a skin scrape done by your vet may shed some light on what is causing it. You may wish to do this first, so you know what you're treating.

JubesXX
 
Hi Jubes. Frontline spray was applied to the lower neck, below the flakey skin point. Going to get my old microscope out, take a scrape and see what's on it. Mags 50, 100 and 300. 20 years since I've used it and perhaps it could be used more often. If I see anything moving I'll post.
 
i was thinking of mixing vasiline with scaly leg stuff and rub on their faces do you think it would work.
cant spray their faces and cant find any cream.
 
You could always choose a safe test area away from the eyes for that mixture and try it. Sounds like a good idea if the stuff will mix. Problem is if you mix it with say flour and stick it on, the other hens will peck at it.
 
So Lucy stood patiently on my chair while I took scrapes onto vaseline coated slides and peered into the microscope. Nothing moving there and no mushroom looking things either. So then took a torch and a 7x magnifying glass and had a good long look -nothing except flakey skin. She seems better actually, otherwise she is the healthiest she has been for over a year, perhaps longer. So swabbed some 1% Neam around, keeping well away from her eyes, and will keep checking on her. Will put petroleum jelly on her comb as well, but that's a two person job with Lucy.
 
chrismahon said:
So Lucy stood patiently on my chair while I took scrapes onto vaseline coated slides and peered into the microscope. Nothing moving there and no mushroom looking things either. So then took a torch and a 7x magnifying glass and had a good long look -nothing except flakey skin. She seems better actually, otherwise she is the healthiest she has been for over a year, perhaps longer. So swabbed some 1% Neam around, keeping well away from her eyes, and will keep checking on her. Will put petroleum jelly on her comb as well, but that's a two person job with Lucy.
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mushroom looking things? lol if you're looking for fungal cells you want scrapings or even just a swab rub onto the slide, put a drop of sterile water, cover slide with slip square and check at 100x it will look like this http://youtu.be/CbuPYxtM0Y8

not mushrooms hahah yeasty fungal cells are usually the culprit. if it's ringworm type it will be enlongated cells and will show up under a blacklight usually, but so will some creams you apply so be sure it's clean before you blacklight the bird. i'm happy to geek out with you on lab stuff. it was my speciality back in the practice! :D

same with mites btw but without any water as it will drown them and the Vaseline will suspend movement. really clear tape can pick up mites well too sometimes. if you want to check for bacteria though you will need a dye kit.
 
Just joking about the mushrooms Steph. Good idea with clear tape and swab. Bit out of my depth here at the moment but it's very interesting and may be helpful on my verruca cases. I was working by process of elimination; if I don't see crawly things then it must be fungal. That's what the Neam solution treats.
 
chrismahon said:
Just joking about the mushrooms Steph. Good idea with clear tape and swab. Bit out of my depth here at the moment but it's very interesting and may be helpful on my verruca cases. I was working by process of elimination; if I don't see crawly things then it must be fungal. That's what the Neam solution treats.
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yes and if it gets worse with the fungal treatments you know it's bacteria! lol :D
 
To follow up. Jubilee advised trying E45 cream on the area which we did. Applied it just twice and the swelling went down and the flakey skin disappeared. Lucy has been fine for ages and is now laying again.

I'm not sure if it wasn't a stress reaction. We had a nasty RIR in with her which has now gone for good. She laid a few days afterwards, as did all the hens in that coop.
 
Really interested to read this post. I have a small cuckoo pekin who has a face just like the one on the picture and has since shortly after we got her 6 months ago. It does not seem to effect her in any way. Her eye looked slightly more swollen than usual this morning so I was starting to worry she may be getting a resp infection but on reading this post I might just give the E45 a go. She is bottom of the pecking order so maybe it is stress related for her too.
 
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