Pekin still wheezing after Tylan - what next?

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elmdene

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I got two new pekins a few months ago from someone I'm pretty sure is a reputable breeder. They did sneeze a bit to start with which I hoped was due to the stress of moving home. I quarantined them for a few weeks and then put them together with my cockerel and other pekin hen. They all then seemed to sneeze a bit occasionally and one of the new girl's breathing was often quite raspy but on Tuesday it was really bad - she was wheezing loudly and snicking a lot. The other newbie was also a bit wheezy but nowhere near so bad. I hadn't wanted to use antibiotics but now it seemed really necessary so I have had them all on Tylan in the water for 3 days (until today) and also immediately started worming with Flubenvet (even though I did this for all 4 of them when I first got the new girls). They do occasionally gape so I thought this would get rid of possible gapeworm, although I don't think that would make them wheezy.
Anyway, Fluffybum, the very wheezy girl is a bit better but her breathing is still quite raspy and wheezy when you listen to her chest, so I'm not sure what to do next. The lady I got them from said she would be happy to change them but then would obviously do the dastardly deed. Their house is clean and well ventilated. Their poo is sort of ok, although someone is doing long stringy poo with a lot of undigested grass in it, and there is a bit of diarrhoea (could be the flubenvet). They hadn't been on grass before I got them so may be still getting used to digesting it. There is also the very occasional poo with a bit of gut lining in it - usually the first in the morning when they get up - this happened a lot when I first got them. They both look very healthy - no watery eyes or nasal discharge, both laying well (one soft-shelled egg a few weeks ago but they have only just started laying) and are very active and bright. I'm feeling so mean keeping them in at the moment because of the worming (although they are on grass so they eat that) but I want to do it properly and am wondering whether to do it again in 2-3 weeks to break any life cycles. I've checked out the respiratory diseases section but given the lack of any other symptoms can't really make a diagnosis. I don't want to throw medicine at them but am at a bit of a loss as to what to do now, so any advice, as usual, very much appreciated.
 
My pekin Nancy is wheezing and has been put on Karidox for 5 days. I personally do not like drugs that go in water as you're never sure of the dose each bird is getting. I would always go for a syringe dose administered directly to the affected bird by mouth or injection. This both confirms the dose is right and also stops the unneeded dosing of healthy birds.
I would imagine that the diarrhoea is due to the drug. Antibiotics will kill all the friendly bacteria in a chickens gut, so you will need to give them all a dose of Berylls if you can get it, or probiotic natural yogart to get their digestion working properly again. You need to do it about 48hrs after you've finished the drug course though, otherwise they will just counteract each other.
How long is the grass in your run? Gapeworm is rare and the gaping my be due to the grass getting stuck as they eat it, or could also be due to the infection and they are gaping to help breathing.
I'm not an expert, but if you've not had a break. I'd keep them on the drug for another 2 days, or go back to the vet and say it didn't work. If the drug is successful they should be breathing normally after the course, or at least see a marked improvement. If you've broken the drug cycle, keep your fingers crossed and finish the flubenvet course, as to break that now will not help any of the birds.
That's about the best I can offer you. If you want to save them, don't give up hope.
 
I don't think much of Tylan Elmdene. I have read many reports of it failing to do much and have only used Baytril myself with total success. As BB says, you must complete the Flubenvet treatment to avoid creating a worm strain that is resistant to it. The antibiotic will wreck the gut flora and 48 hours after completing the course it will aid their recovery if the gut is helped to restart. We use multi-culture probiotic yoghurt (some have only one or two cultures) because we can't get Beryl's here, which has a couple of hundred cultures I think they claim- Beryl's would be best. We've used it before and got great results. I agree with BB, tapeworm is rare and I have never heard of a confirmed case.
 
Thanks for the advice. I am definitely continuing with the flubenvet treatment - do you think a second one in 2-3 weeks is a good idea? The grass in their run is not long, although when they free range (when not on flubenvet) they do have access to longer grass. As I say, you would never believe there is anything wrong with them to look at them - they eat and drink for England and Fluffybum has laid an egg this morning - she also seems less raspy this morning. Have got some Beryl's on order so will see how it goes. Still lots of grass in the poo.
 
Sadly eating and laying are not a good indicator if it's a lung infection. Nancy is eating like a horse and laying too. She is burbling with each intake and wheezing at the end of everything she says.
Finish the worming, get their gut flora back into shape and then leave it a couple of weeks. If they still have diarrhoea then think about reworming, but I'd let them settle down as there may be too much going on to correctly assess what symptoms are accosiated with what problem.
Every morning from now, pick each bird up and put your ear to its back and listen to its breathing. Apart from the joys of being close to their soft feathers, warmth and getting a sneaky cuddle, You should then gauge what 'normal' breathing sounds like for each one and can easily spot anyone getting worse or better over the next few days and weeks.
Be careful of long grass, too much can cause impacted crop. I'd avoid letting them into any for the time being if you can and see if the grass/poo issue clears itself. Pekins love grass, but won't hurt to limit them for a while.
Ps. What are you feeding them on? Just wondered if they are munching the grass as they are hungry and not filling up on their mash/pellets. Only asking as mine will not eat a lot of the pellets due to the size of them - seem to be too big for them to swallow.
 
Thanks for your concern BabyBantam - as is always the way when you have a sick chicken, I had to go away for the weekend so haven't been able to monitor them as I would have liked. When I got back late last night there was a soft shelled egg under the perch of Powderpuff (the other newbie) as if it had just 'fallen out' since she'd been roosting, which seems odd. There was another egg in the nest box so it appears that both new girls laid on Saturday and Sunday, unless one was Myrtle's which is unlikely. Have just checked the chests of 3 of them and all seems ok but Fluffy is in the nest box so will have to check on her later. The new girls eat TONS of pellets - far more than my other 2 ever have. In fact, they seem to just eat all day, either pellets or like those nodding chickens, pecking at the grass all day, or if free ranging, digging wherever they can.
 
Just checked Fluffy and she is still wheezy, although it seems more out of her beak than her chest. She just has really wheezy/raspy breath, but otherwise looks fine. I think I will call the vet and see what she says as don't want to give them all Beryl's tomorrow if Fluffy needs yet more antibiotics.
 
Just seen your post about Nancy on the General Chickens Forum BabyBantam. How is she doing - did the Karidox do the trick (never heard of that)?
 
I wouldn't worry about an egg being under the perch if they've not been laying long. I got a POL Welsummer to replace one I lost, the first egg was on the floor of the coop. The second one she laid while perching and as I was fiddling about in the coop for some reason, I caught it! Then she got the idea of using the nestbox.
 
Agree about the egg. I got a broody who refuses to let the other two into the nest box, so they are laying all over the house. Soft shells, wind eggs and irregular laying are all pretty normal for the first year. With pekins, I'd keep an eye on the frequency though. My experience says that as they move into laying every day, they are also slyly creeping into the relms of broodiness and before you know it you hear that 'skwark' and get a good peck :)

As to the breathing, glad they are all doing ok. keep checking/listening to them even once you know they are ok (as I said, important to know what healthy sounds like). Talk to the vet, but if they recommend more drugs, try to get something specific for her.

Nancy has a long history of dancing with death, she's responding well to the drugs and has lost the gurgle, wheeze should be gone by the end of the course. Karidox is a strong drug, I've been told by the vet never to eat her eggs again... I think they also give it to horses! She's a bit of a particular case though and although throws every sickness known to chickens (and sometimes something brand new) at me, she just refuses to lay down and give up, so I refuse to give up on her :) she IS the most expensive chicken ever know to man though, think she's cost me about £200 over her lifetime :D
 
Thanks for all the advice. The soft shelled eggs could be due to Myrtle terrorizing Fluffy and Puffy and keeping guard on the coop and nesting boxes pretty much all day while they have been kept in, but I've never had any before, hence my concern. They have both been laying now for about 4 weeks and do use the nest box normally - maybe it was just a bit late in the day, after she had started to roost, and she coudn't be bothered to move! And I did have my suspicions about Fluffy going broody the other day when she tried to roll the egg back under her and pecked me when I took it away.
I've just checked them again and all seem to be ok, the sneezing appears to have gone, just Fluffy's breath is still quite raspy. I can't hear it so much in her chest/back - it seems to be more from her throat and beak. Just about to give them all their Beryl's friendly bacteria so I have decided to see what sort of effect that has before calling the vet, as in all other respects, Fluffy seems very well.
I had a similar experience last year to yours with Nancy, BabyBantam. My gorgeous Sybil, who should have been born a cockerel really - she had so much personality, kept getting ill, then better, then ill again etc etc. I threw everything her, at vast expense, but when you love an animal or bird you will do anything for them. Lots of people wouldn't be able to understand why you would keep a chicken whose eggs you couldn't eat - but I can! The only problem I can see is how you know which are hers?
 
Nancy lays eggs with a specific raised white deposit on them like freckles, something she has done since I got her. She also lays quite small eggs (for a bantam) and only about twice a week or so. The other 2 lay perfect smooth big eggs, that are a different colour, so it's easy to tell them apart.
Good idea from Chris though, Carnival bums for the summer :D
 
Food colouring - that's a novel idea - is it healthy though?! While we're at it, does anyone have a good method of marking chickens for identification? Fluffy and Puffy are pretty much identical white pekins and the only way I can tell them apart at the moment is that one has a dirty mark on her head! Coloured leg rings aren't great for pekins because of their feathery feet and I don't really want to spoil their lovely plumage.
 
I've seen a Silkie dyed bright pink Elmdene. It was white, but one of the ex-owners kids tried dying it with something. Anyway the colour went completely wrong and it ended up pink. The owner couldn't stand the sight of it so it was re-homed.

Perhaps something less obtrusive?
 
Are their combs different shapes (not size)? You'll get to know personalities as you go, but other than that, a dot of ink or food colouring on a wing feather would show. You'll only have it there for a year or so, as they'll lose the feather in moult, so not permanent.
 
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