It's happened again!

[chrismahon]

The fourth one in two years has died suddenly, perfectly healthy without any apparent illness. I've gone down to the Orchard and just found them lying there. All in exactly the same position; as if they have stood upright, stiffened up and then fallen over onto their side. All had their eyes closed.

First Martha, a Crested Cream Legbar pullet at 8 months. Then Primrose, a Blue Laced Wyandotte pullet at 8 months. Then Charles, a Blue Laced Wyandotte Cock at 2 years and now Gracie, a Merrydale hybrid at 2 years. Poor girl -at least it was quick.

I've mentioned Gracie 'big eggs' in previous posts. She daily laid huge green eggs, around 80 grammes and her largest was a 126 gramme double yolker -the best layer we've ever had. She had moulted a bit and had started laying again. We had first two big eggs late last week then nothing. She was fine this morning. First out of the coop and eating Marriages Flubenvet feed (third day) with gusto. Fine at 12.00pm when they had a little mixed corn as a tiny treat, then at 3.00pm just lying on the floor.

We averaged 40 chickens kept at any time over the last two years. So we've lost 4 healthy chickens suddenly out of 40 over 2 years, which equates to 5% of them a year. Is this normal? Does anyone else experience the same type of loss at the same rate?

 

[foxy]

Sorry Chris, that's a shame

I read somewhere, ages ago that an annual mortality rate of 6% in a small flock of around 50 was about right, no idea where I got that from though mind will try and dig it out. I do find those statistics about right, the old girls start dropping of the perch at between 4 - 6 years old, hybrids a bit younger I have found.

 

[Marigold]

I'm very sorry to hear that, Chris. Maybe her heart gave out, after the strain of laying those enormous eggs? Chickens are so good at hiding it when they're not on top of the world, aren't they - still, at least it sounds as if she was enjoying life to the end and didn't suffer, and wasn't infectious.

When you say you've had 4 'healthy chickens die out of 40, ie 5%,' have you had any other losses from illness or injury etc as well as these, or are these the figures for your total losses? I would think that if a chicken has an average healthy life expectancy of say, 4 -5 years, maybe 3-4 for hybrids, one might perhaps expect an average turnover of 25% per year in a mixed hybrid/purebred flock after the first 4 years or so, assuming they were kept until they dropped and were replaced annually by the same number of young ones. (ie, after Year 4 a quarter of the flock would be 4+ years old, 1/4 would be 3, 1/4 would be 2, and 1/4 would be POL to 1 year.) Of course this wouldn't kick in until you'd had them for longer than the 2 years you are talking about, as one would expect all healthy chickens to be in with a chance of making it to at least 2.

 

[chrismahon]

Hi Marigold. I've given it more thought and yes, 25% would be expected from an aging flock. So we would need 10 new hens every year to stay at the same count now, as some of ours are over 4 anyway.

Foxy mentioned 6% and I forgot to add little Lottie Legbar, again perfectly healthy, who died when she got so excited at grain treat time she fitted and died in seconds. That equates to 6% loss. Then if we add top hen Princess, the perfectly healthy black Orpington who had a stroke it appeared whilst getting grain treats, it takes it up to 7.5%. " Out of the aforementioned, 4 died shortly after grain treats and I'm wondering if they should stop. It could easily be heart attacks due to over excitement in all cases.

We haven't included the sick ones, which adds another 8, plus accidents another 2 so up to 18%. Then there were incurable behavioral disorders namely cannibalism 4, feather pecking 1 and egg eating 1, so up to 25%. Sounds a bit harsh with the feather pecking and egg eating, but it isn't something we did on a whim believe me.

On the bright side we've had some major success with treatments, so at least 20 saved (some more than once).

Overall, would we still have started with chickens knowing what we know now, what we have been through and have to come? Absolutely yes -the pleasure far outweighs the pain!

 

[cuwiar]

Chris, that's so sad...I'm really sorry to hear you've lost another of your girls

 

[Chuck]

25% seems a lot. Around 10% would be acceptable but it does depend on the average age of the flock.

Sorry you lost her.

 

[chrismahon]

Thanks everyone. Now down to 5 hens in a coop designed for up to 12 Orpingtons.

I wonder if the underlying problem is something in the soil. Picked another little verruca that had just started, off one of their feet. It had already sent a tiny root under the skin which I think I pulled out. Fungus problems is one thing, but on a 200 year old brownfield site that was used as a tip for the locals from 1955 -1980 I dread to think what's in there. Like DDT, Lead, Cadmium, Asbestos and anything else now declared toxic that was commonplace then. We won't be able to answer that until we move next year.

 

[Marigold]

All those foot problems do sound rather suspicious, don't they, Chris. and I don't think anybody else has had several young hens die of excitement when given a handful of corn. When you move, will you take the remaining ones with you (red tape?) or are you running the flock down in advance of the move to give you a clean sweep?

 

[chrismahon]

We are running the flock down Marigold ready for the move of the survivors. Some of the Wyandotte hens and some others we will try to rehome. We have our breeding sets of Blue laced Wyandottes, Buff Orpingtons and bantam Brown English Leghorns and may add TNN's.

Have to move in batches of 19 or less to avoid horrendous commercial quantity paperwork. Three of our 'coops' are staying here. One is too heavy to move and the other two are inside a large converted shed. So I have to build another two ideally, with runs. Just before we move they will all go into their housing which will then be dismantled and packed flat to go the day before (takes half an hour per coop and run). Three trips should do everything (buying a very large covered trailer) that doesn't go onto the articulated lorry. Just need a rental and storage at the other end. The third trip moves a shed, polytunnel, all the fixed runs and anything left behind. Still selling stuff and buying stuff in preparation, because we don't know what to expect, so we are preparing for almost everything. A friend will accompany me on the last two trips to help with stuff, but the final 600 mile 14 hour return drive is on my own -gulp!

 

[Marigold]

It sounds as if it would be easier to go to the moon! Remind us where you are going to, Chris, and what sort of place you've got at the other end. I hope it's got broadband so we can all get instalments about how you're getting on. Your last post did sound as if the chickens were going to be packed flat along with the dismantled housing, but i expect I misunderstood you (I hope!) You don't mention any human belongings to be moved, although I appreciate that this is a lower order of priority to a chicken keeper. Have you told Bottom yet?

 

[chrismahon]

South of France Marigold. Je ne comprend pas le 'Broadband'. We'll be lucky to have a telephone! House contents go from a storage container here to another over there via an articulated curtain sided self-load trailer. A lot of that is already packed. Coops and pens in the trailer, hens in dog cages in the van which we've been buying second hand for a while now -got 4, need another two. Bought the clip-on feeders and drinkers at the last show.

Rent initially -don't care if its just a field, we have a huge tent we bought 'just in case' for £60. Then buy a smallholding to rennovate -loads of them in Lot et Garonne but we'll look in Lot first. Forget advertised prices -take 25% off as they are always very optomistic. So 8 acres, farmhouse and a couple of barns about £100K. Leaving us same again to rennovate. Can't wait to get a tractor!

Botty hasn't a clue. He will always be spoilt rotten wherever we are though -just need a current photo for his passport. It will be a great adventure for all of us -pity Gracie won't be part of it.

 

[cuwiar]

I'm jealous!!! :roll:

How many chickens do you have altogether Chris? And how many are you planning to move? it sounds like a logistics nightmare - but very exciting!!

Do you have a tent for all the chickens too? :lol: :lol:

 

[chrismahon]

Yes Cuwiar, Botty has his own tent and the others have to share another. Can't be taking more than 38 and think it may only be 24 or so in the end. Doubt we can get it down to just 19. I started to plan it out but we just don't know what will happen over Winter. We have somone to take half temporarily while we go over and then come back for them. I'll probably start popping back for hatching eggs, feed and electrical goods on a regular basis.
I used to be a Project Manager so organising it should be possible.

 

[tygrysek75]

Congratulation Chris-sounds like a great adventure.I hope everything go smooth.Have you concidered any of you friends just to give you choks lift over the border so you save some time on trips.Really wish you well ,you be missed for sure.I think you going to have a very busy next year .Good luck 99 99 99

 

[chrismahon]

Thanks Tygrysek. It will be a very busy year. Can't split batches of chickens because of the export paperwork so we've got to get the van seviced thoroughly, buy a new trailer down plated for weight and fitted to French regs so we can use it over there. Pretty steady driving though. 60mph in a straight line. Roads are nowhere near as busy as they are here. I've got linking run panels if we have to stop on the way -takes seconds to errect them.

 

[foxy]

Oh wow Chris! How exciting for you Really jealous, you must promise loads of updates

 

[chrismahon]

Updates will be subject to an internet connection. Being miles from anywhere it is unlikely I can get a reliable one and certainly not 'le broadband'. Only chance is an internet site in a local town. We will struggle without it so it is a major consideration, but not as major as a water supply because mains water costs 10x more than here. Mind you Council Tax is a third, no car tax, but need Medical Insurance as their NHS only covers simple stuff, so about same cost really.

I'll be putting a post in asking the questions about what do I need to do before we go? We've got a lot of info but not from Poultry Keepers so we might have missed something. Hopefully, as their National Emblem is a cockerel, we might not get the noise nuisance issues we currently have with Bottom? Will need a big bottle of Baytril because of travel stress related illness when we get there.

We've been working towards this for 2 years now. One of the reasons we hatched all those chicks last year - good experience. And now we have all the equipment to start immediately we get there!

 

[Marigold]

This sounds to me as if it has the makings of a brilliant TV series. 'Englishman sets off on Noah's Ark expedition journey with 24 chickens, two tents and some fold-flat run panels and coops, in search of a field to camp in the south of France.' Sort of 'My Family and Other Poultry'?
Seriously, have you spoken to the BBC? Maybe Channel 4? It could be a big hit.

 

[chrismahon]

The French think the English are mad and we are going over there to prove them correct! My friend's partner is French and she was flabbergasted when we said we were coming over with our chickens. She just expected us to neck the lot and buy more when we arrived -the French have little respect for livestock I'm afraid and that's something we have to deal with.
If we could get an internet connection we could publish each days adventures -potentially big money with internet viewing apparently. I might get a video camera before we go?

 

[cuwiar]

I might get a video camera before we go?

17

You definitley should - there could be the chance of turning it into an internet hit but it will be amazing for you and your family to look back on in the future!

Why not start a little chicken related 'blog' on here...I'm sure lots of us would like to keep tabs on your experiences (nosiness and wishful thinking!)