Hi, Total Newbie

[Lotta3]

Hi

I am brand new to chickens and currently have a count of 1! He's still living with his hatcher until I get his coop built and some wives for him (will be end of Feb/beginning March)

this is him, he's around 8-10 months old and a Leghorn apparently?

Currently called Leggy but thinking of calling him Col. Sanders or The Colonel for short.

My brothers are coming to build my coop for me in Feb - I have a lot of bits of wood/pallets at the allotment plus a good supply of mesh.
One question is - we don't have much of an issue with red mite here - or other types - but is it safe/ a good idea to paint the inside of the coop with a 'plastikote' type paint to give a plastic-y finish to make it less hospitable to parasites? also easier cleaning (several coats and sealed)

This is the coop plan I've drawn for what wood etc I have available

Larger size at http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3666/12049777615_0b305f8c56_o.jpg

Larger size at http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2872/12050632766_e37e081f75_o.jpg

I plan on getting The Col. 4 wives and then next year upgrading them to a bigger coop and using this one as a 'broody' coop and run. In mean time this will have a larger (at least 10ft x 10-15ft) pen in addition to the secure run for grazing etc - the secure run is for bad weather/if I am going out for the full day and can't check on them/give a sheltered place to hang the feeder etc

Oh a bit about me outside the bird plans.... I'm 29, out of work due to disability but attempting to start my own business in stylish custom cat furniture and writing a series of kids books.

 

[Marigold]

Hi Lotta, and a big welcome to the Forum. You've certainly got a beautiful boy there, he's going to wow his ladies when they arrive!
The coop design looks good to me, evidently a great deal of thought and care has gone into planning this. You didn't say what kind of wire mesh you intend to use - I expect you know this needs to be weldmesh, not any bigger than 1" square and 0.5 ins is even better to help prevent small birds and rodents from getting in to the run. Also if you can cover the top of the run with mesh, or even better fit a clear corrugated plastic roof, the will be more security against predators, with two legs as well a s with four. With a corrugated roof the run will not get muddy in wet weather, which is an enormous boon for both the birds and for you. if you intend to breed from this handsome chap, presumably you will be getting Leghorn pullets who will be pretty flighty and will fly out of a run with no mesh or roof. Remember that for 5 birds you need to provide an absolute minimum of 10 sq. metres of run space and more is better, even for the holding run, and having extra free ranging as well is just brilliant, so long as its secure, which is a big consideration on an allotment, especially with Leghorns.
Personally I wouldn't paint the inside of the coop because if you completely seal it off it may suffer from condensation. Use good wood preservative on the outside, I would choose the kind with the 5-year guarantee for outside buildings, which is more toxic than some of them but as you are getting everything ready well in advance this won't affect the birds so long as it has dried off well before they use it. The traditional paint for chicken coops is creosote, of course, but nowadays its difficult to buy the really effective sort, the kind you get in builders merchants is a less toxic kind which doesn't have the same effect. Whatever you choose you will probably have to stick to the same sort of stuff thereafter as often a different kind of preservative won't stick to another type. Creosote is truly horrible stuff and personally I don't see the point when there are better modern preservatives available. Actually, I'm a big fan of plastic coops, but that's another debate!
Starting off with new equipment is a bonus in the battle against red mite, of course, and there are things you can do to prevent it. Many people, myself included, have kept hens for years and have never had any infestation at all. My hens live in a large run with a roof, so they never come into contact with wild birds. If birds can get into your run, they will shake their feathers and deposit mites, which will then get into the coop and stay there happily for ever after, so a covered run is really good, whether or not it has a solid roof. Also of course, keeping the coop clean and dusting redmite powder or diatomaceous earth into all the nooks and crannies will help, as does constant vigilance by going down after dark regularly and wiping the underside of a perch with a white paper tissue. If it comes away red, you have the blood of squashed mites. There's also some stuff called Red Stop which you add to drinking water and it makes the hens blood taste nasty to the redmite so they starve or go somewhere else, which many people find effective.

What sort of roof covering were you planning to use? Roofing felt over a wooden base is notorious as a haven for mites, which crawl in between the layers and are impossible to eradicate even if you exterminate them elsewhere. Onduline is quite good, ie solid corrugated plastic, as it's all one surface and also the corrugations provide excellent ventilation. Hens only need to be kept dry and safe in the coop, they keep themselves warm, and good ventilation is really important.
There are lots of threads on here about building coops from scratch, and a lot of members have had some wonderful ideas that I hope you will find useful. Looking forward to hearing more about how you get on.

 

[Lotta3]

hi

thanks for the fast reply

the roof is (for time being based on materials I have) going to be tarred and felted - the thick roofing tar always worked on my rabbit hutches to prevent mites being an issue under the felt. This is on the advice of others on the allotments as we are on a hill ridge and corrugated roofing and the wind often disagree. There's no 'predominant' direction to angle the roof to. The run will have a plank and mesh permanent roof with hook on points for a tarp to go on top and down the back/front depending on direction of weather for more protection.

according to the other poultry owners around here they have virtually no problem with mites - my biggest issues to prepare for are apparently mud, potential for deep snow in winter, rats and the local fox - as such will be putting the coop and run on paving with wood chip to prevent tunneling and the mesh I have is bite proof cat netting left over from building a cat pen for a feral cat - it's flexible wire covered in plastic for the top half of the run and weld mesh for bottom part with plank support (that's mostly to stop my dogs from twanging wire, Charlie wants to hug and love and lick all animals smaller than him... they don't appreciate it)

This is the mesh with my ex feral Loki demonstrating he can't escape

The girls I'm starting with are hybrids to get used to handling, wing clipping, health checking and general chicken keeping and when I expand I hope to get him some purebred wives once ready for the more feisty Leghorn girls - the suppliers I contacted suggested Pied Suffolk and Light Sussex as good duel purpose girls to get me started as a novice and if I cross with The Col. then I should get good table birds (on the off chance one did go broody)

 

[Icemaiden]

Hi Lotta3.

My one concern with your set-up would be the tarpaulin on the roof, especially if you're in a windy location.
Not long ago, I bought a good quality tarpaulin with reinforced eyelets from a recommended manufacturer, to put over the mesh roof on our hen run. The roof has a slope on it (admittedly less than a foot front to back) & I naïvely thought that the rain would run off. The tarpaulin was stretched tight & secured in place with rope on all four sides, with lengths of timber running front to back across the roof to try to keep it from sagging.

Not only did it still collect water & sag, nearly bringing the whole roof down under the weight of water (I had to keep pushing it up from underneath to tip the water off), but it survived for less than a month before the eyelets ripped, even though our run is in a fairly sheltered location. The tarpaulin then bunched up on the roof, funnelling the water to the very places I was trying to keep dry.

In summary, the tarpaulin was a complete waste of time & money, and I can't recommend using one on the roof of your run, unless you're in a very sheltered spot, out of the wind, & with an apex roof. When I can afford to, I'll be buying onduline & screwing it on securely.

Good luck with your coop building, & don't forget to post us some photos when it's done. 08

 

[chrismahon]

Hi Lotta and welcome to the forum. I can see you have based your coop design on others on the market (in this case the Chinese ones), which is a good start. But most have chronically small runs. Your 24 square feet is really only enough for one bird. The pop-hole looks short for a cockerel and you may not have enough perch space or ventilation. My advise would be to go and look at coops in actual occupation and talk to the owner who will, I'm sure, advise you of all the shortcomings. If you are going to spend a lot of time and money building your own coop it would be best to get it as right as possible.

 

[Marigold]

I think Lotta said the pen would be 10 ft by 10 - 15 ft initially, Chris? So, about 9 - 13 sq. metres? This would be enough for 4-6 birds?
I'm no good at reading plans, but like you, Chris, I did wonder about perching space, front to back. There are 6 perches apparently 6 ins apart - the problem is, Lotta, that if they are too close there isn't room for the length of one birds tail feathers plus the front end of the bird behind, especially if you have a cockerel who is larger and with glorious tail plumage. Also, if the perches are too close, or are too close to the back side of the coop, the birds' overnight droppings will soil the bird behind them or make a mess all down the door. As the coop appears to be 3ft from front to back and about 18ins wide, you really only have room for two perches, giving 3 ft of perching space. Each bird needs 10 ins sideways, so the most you could accommodate in there would be 4 medium sized hybrids. If you're making it yourself I would scale it up so that the nestboxes are fixed to the outside of the coop and the extra 1ft width could be used for perches.
It sounds as if you have good support from other keepers nearby - Chris' suggestion about looking at coops, tape measure in hand, and talking to others is a good one, I think. The coop is most unlikely to be too big, but if its too small you'll have wasted a lot of money and effort. This type of coop is less useful as a broody coop than a simple ground- level nesting box attached to a smaller grass run, for incubation and the first 6 weeks when the hen is with the chicks.

 

[Lotta3]

hi thanks for the feedback

this is the coop I used as a base for designing mine on (it's on another forum but hope it's ok to show?) http://chat.allotment.org/index.php?topic=70436.0 - the perches in the design are 22in wide after side supports etc so was basing on there's approx 6ft square roosting space plus the nest boxes which is over 1ft square roosting space per bird since I am only having 5 not 6 (to allow more room for The Col)

the pop hole has now been enlarged on the plans to give more room

the 'closed run' is simply to provide a sheltered area in poor weather and somewhere to hang the feeder etc out of the elements/provide perches that aren't a 'leg up' over the fence etc or somewhere to restrict movement if I am needing to gather everyone up easily (ie wing clipping, health checking or whatever) their main pen is 100-150ft square with limited access to the full allotment for further roaming so combined with the 33 ft square closed pen (door will be open during day) that's 133-183 ft square or 26.6 - 36.6 sq ft per bird (if they choose to stay in run for shelter in awful weather they still have 6.6 sq ft each if they don't want to talk to each other for some reason - there's the 8ft x 3ft run plus the 3ft x 3ft area under the coop in there)

 

[Marigold]

That's a very interesting link, Lotta. I now see why the perches in your drawings are so close together, ie so that the birds can sort of choose where to sit. My friend has an Eglu Cube with this sort of 'cake cooling rack' arrangement, and I also had it in the first little Eglu Classic I used to use. In both types of Eglu I've found that the rack of perches close together got very mucky, the droppings didn't fall through the spaces nearly so well as in a coop where the perches are more spaced out so that the bird's vents are all positioned over the floor of the coop and droppings simply don't land on the perch itself, or on the next slat back in the rack.
Most of the post you linked to seems to be advice on how to reduce the time spent on cleaning out the coop. Fair enough, none of us are very keen to spend ages on this task! However, I feel that, to allow droppings to pile up for several days or weeks is asking for trouble and would lead to unacceptably smelly conditions especially in hot weather. There would be danger of fly outbreaks and consequently fly strike on the birds themselves, which is a very painful and probably fatal condition, easily avoided by proper husbandry and cleanliness. Deep litter arrangements are often used by commercial set ups with hundreds of hens, where it simply isn't practical to attend to poo picking daily, but its different for those of us with a few pet birds that we want to keep to a higher standard of welfare and cleanliness.
Also, I don't agree with the idea in the article that a daily poo pick of the coop floor is a lengthy or troublesome thing to do, for a keeper of a small flock of garden hens. It takes me less than two minutes a day to open the back door of my Green Frog plastic coop, scoop out the overnight poo and any damp Aubiose bedding, and close the door, job done, all clean, no ammonia fumes, and nowhere for redmite to dig and and shelter unobserved. Every so often I remove the diminished Aubiose, clean the floor, sprinkle redmite powder, replace the bedding, all lovely and sweet smelling within 10 minutes.
I also wonder whether you are thinking that there will be extra roosting space for the birds if they sleep in the nestboxes, as you say '6ft roosting space plus the nestboxes.' This is something you need to train them not to do, as if they sleep in the nestboxes they will poo in them, then the first hen to go in to lay next day will put her egg into the piles of poo and it will be contaminated. Every so often a bird gets the idea that she would like a private bedroom, and then you need to put a big plastic flowerpot in the nestbox overnight, removing it next morning so the box can be used for its proper purpose. This usually does the trick within a few days. For 4-5 hens you won't need 3 nestboxes, you need one box for each group of 3-4 hens so two will be ample ( and probably they will all pile into one of them!)

 

[Lotta3]

ah cool

I found that link a while back just on a google search of pictures to find multiple pictures of one setup - cleaning out doesn't bother me as I am there every day to feed and water them and collect eggs hopefully - wasn't planning on 'deep litter' arrangement but it looked like the perching arrangement I'd seen in like you say the Eglu and in my Uncle's coop on his farm so the birds have a variety of seating 'positions' available. I'm perfectly happy to drop the number of perches I have available down to 3 to space them out more.

was hoping that they don't sleep in nest boxes it was a 'here's a list of what's in there' type thing and since I'm getting 4 hens with the 1 rooster - does that mean I should just have the one nest box and more perching space?

thanks for the help - this is why I came and posted the pics to get the help fixing any flaws in the design.

oh the vents I pictured on the plans are these ones

6in x 9in louvered caravan vents due to the fairly wild weather we have here changing direction of wind/rain a lot (on ridge to a valley so the wind swirls)

 

[chrismahon]

They should be fine on a cold windy day, provided they are backed with good mesh Lotta. Otherwise predators could just chew through them. A calm hot Summer is another thing, which is why all our vents have sliding panels to open them out fully. I have also built Summer mesh pop-hole doors now to cope better with the French heat.

 

[Lotta3]

have made a note to back with mesh while fitting them - thanks never thought of the chew factor though at 4ft off floor should be semi safe

there's not been a 'still' day wind wise since I moved here - basically there's always enough wind to fly a kite - but if I have metal mesh behind the vents if it's getting too warm in the coop I suppose can always remove a vent? so it's just a meshed hole

 

[Marigold]

The problem with ventilation is that, with a few birds in an enclosed small space, you rapidly arrive at a 'doctor's waiting room' situation, where the combined effect of their breathing, moisture from droppings, and possible drying off of damp feathers, gives a high level of water vapour. This condenses on the sides of the coop and contributes to damp, unhealthy air. If any of them has any kind of respiratory disease, this then gets passed around the rest like wildfire. This happens just as much in winter as in summer, or even more so when you consider the effect of cold temperatures and coop surfaces on the condensation rate. When they emerge in the morning from a warm and stuffy coop, they then have to cope with the temperature difference you or I would feel if we went outside in our nightwear without our coats on.
Chickens do not need any form of heating, they have extremely effective insulation in their feather coats, and can puff these up for extra warmth when necessary. They also share body heat when roosting together. They are much more likely to feel unhappy when it's too hot than too cold. So you don't have to worry at all about whether they are feeling the cold if you leave vents open all year round. Remember they have evolved for millions of years to roost in draughty trees, with little or no protection from the elements. They do benefit from dry conditions when roosting, ie a waterproof roof, and vents arranged so that you can temporarily close any that are facing into a direct storm of rain, but other than this they really do need lots and lots of air in the coop at all times. If you have a secure enough run, you can leave the pophole open all the time, all year round, and they will be healthier for it, provided you can site the coop so it points away from prevailing winds. I can honestly say that, having kept my hens for many years like this, I have never had a case of respiratory infection in any of them, although these diseases are very common in poultry. So, when designing your coop, it will be good to plan with maximum ventilation in mind, and build in some flexibility, such as your excellent idea of covering the vent holes with mesh so you can remove them when it gets hot in there.
A while ago, we thrashed all this out in a long and interesting discussion about condensation problems, see this thread if interested.
http://poultrykeeperforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5388&hilit=Condensation+in+coops