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So, to be clear, Dinosaw, do we have two boys, one all white (front of the perch in first pic) and one with a creamy collar behind the hen in the third pic.?
-and the 4 girls are the all- black one and the all-white one, ( both behind the white cockerel in the first pic,)
plus the Sussex with the black necklace in the third pic, in front of the cockerel, and the cream and white one in the foreground of the 4th pic?
I agree the scaley leg is really bad on all of the pics, and this in itself is a sign of age - it takes some time to develop as far as that. It can be treated, but it takes months of repeated treatments to eradicate it as the mites get deep under the scales on the legs and lay their eggs, which keep hatching out and re-infesting after the adults have been treated. If I were taking them on, I would want to keep them separate from any new birds I got, because the new ones would catch them from the infested ones when roosting together in the same coop. And also they may well have other parasites such as chicken lice (which will show up as white eggs round their vents, Rick recently posted a picture of this) So, if you seriously want to keep chickens properly, I do agree with you that one way to go would be to start with healthy, young stock if your own choosing, in a lovely clean mite-free coop.
This gives the problem of what you do with the ones you've got. An experienced keeper might cull them painlessly for you, if you know somebody who could help, but it's not a good idea for someone to try who hadn't been properly instructed, and it will be more difficult to tackle the cockerels as they're larger birds. My vet would charge me £15 per bird to put each to sleep, which would be a peaceful end and this would include disposal of the bodies. There might be a reduction for six, and anyway the prices would vary locally, or a vet might be able to point you to a local farmer who could help you out. Not all vets are good with chickens and finding one may not be very easy.
I just keep a few pet birds for pleasure and for eggs, and I let them live out their lives in retirement, and once they're too old to lay, I have them PTS once they get anything terminally wrong with them. But that's after they've been carefully looked after by me as pets for several years, - in your position, with these neglected birds who are not your responsibility, I would probably feel it was good to have a clean sweep and then start afresh. I would definitely cull the cockerels, and agree with Dinosaw about the black hen. It's a shame, really, they're all quite pretty birds. They've had quite a nice life, though, haven't they, not ideal, but plenty of room to roam and enjoy the sunshine for a few years, unlike battery hens, so no need for you to feel bad about giving them an easy way out. I might send the bill to the person who left you with the problems, though!
And definitely BURN that horrible old coop, when the new one is ready, preferably ON the spot without moving it, as it will be full of red mite and their eggs, the only way to kill them is by fire, and if you attempt to dismantle it and move it, you'll shake them off on to the run and they'll just crawl back up again on to the nearest chicken....
-and the 4 girls are the all- black one and the all-white one, ( both behind the white cockerel in the first pic,)
plus the Sussex with the black necklace in the third pic, in front of the cockerel, and the cream and white one in the foreground of the 4th pic?
I agree the scaley leg is really bad on all of the pics, and this in itself is a sign of age - it takes some time to develop as far as that. It can be treated, but it takes months of repeated treatments to eradicate it as the mites get deep under the scales on the legs and lay their eggs, which keep hatching out and re-infesting after the adults have been treated. If I were taking them on, I would want to keep them separate from any new birds I got, because the new ones would catch them from the infested ones when roosting together in the same coop. And also they may well have other parasites such as chicken lice (which will show up as white eggs round their vents, Rick recently posted a picture of this) So, if you seriously want to keep chickens properly, I do agree with you that one way to go would be to start with healthy, young stock if your own choosing, in a lovely clean mite-free coop.
This gives the problem of what you do with the ones you've got. An experienced keeper might cull them painlessly for you, if you know somebody who could help, but it's not a good idea for someone to try who hadn't been properly instructed, and it will be more difficult to tackle the cockerels as they're larger birds. My vet would charge me £15 per bird to put each to sleep, which would be a peaceful end and this would include disposal of the bodies. There might be a reduction for six, and anyway the prices would vary locally, or a vet might be able to point you to a local farmer who could help you out. Not all vets are good with chickens and finding one may not be very easy.
I just keep a few pet birds for pleasure and for eggs, and I let them live out their lives in retirement, and once they're too old to lay, I have them PTS once they get anything terminally wrong with them. But that's after they've been carefully looked after by me as pets for several years, - in your position, with these neglected birds who are not your responsibility, I would probably feel it was good to have a clean sweep and then start afresh. I would definitely cull the cockerels, and agree with Dinosaw about the black hen. It's a shame, really, they're all quite pretty birds. They've had quite a nice life, though, haven't they, not ideal, but plenty of room to roam and enjoy the sunshine for a few years, unlike battery hens, so no need for you to feel bad about giving them an easy way out. I might send the bill to the person who left you with the problems, though!
And definitely BURN that horrible old coop, when the new one is ready, preferably ON the spot without moving it, as it will be full of red mite and their eggs, the only way to kill them is by fire, and if you attempt to dismantle it and move it, you'll shake them off on to the run and they'll just crawl back up again on to the nearest chicken....
Oh, and nobody has mentioned chicken worms yet, have they? I'm pretty sure they've never been wormed so they will all probably have a heavy worm burden, which in itself will make them less able to find the energy to lay well. Again, this can be treated but would need two courses of Flubenvet, and the powder would cost you about £15+ per pot, which provides 20 treatments.
Agree about the RSPCA, but doubt if they would be able or willing to take this on, as sadly it's just continuous low-level neglect, rather than actual deliberate cruelty.
Agree about the RSPCA, but doubt if they would be able or willing to take this on, as sadly it's just continuous low-level neglect, rather than actual deliberate cruelty.
dinosaw
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Yes that should have read nettex (bloody autocorrect).
Any time birds are in poor condition it can effect their laying so it's very likely.
Three boys I think Marigold. I'm 90% sure that both of the all whites on the fence with the black hen are boys, the more ambiguous one at the back is probably bottom bird of the three which is why it looks less mature and it has I think lost some tail feathers but the size of the wattles and the length of the legs make me fairly sure it is male. Of course I could be mistaken.
Re the RSPCA could this comes under abandonment?.
Any time birds are in poor condition it can effect their laying so it's very likely.
Three boys I think Marigold. I'm 90% sure that both of the all whites on the fence with the black hen are boys, the more ambiguous one at the back is probably bottom bird of the three which is why it looks less mature and it has I think lost some tail feathers but the size of the wattles and the length of the legs make me fairly sure it is male. Of course I could be mistaken.
Re the RSPCA could this comes under abandonment?.
Thank you so much all for the advice. It's a very tough decision as I'm not one to give up on a living animal. I have ordered the Nettex spray and wormer also.
I have also attached a photo of the message I sent the old owner, still awaiting his reply.
I will make the new coop a priority and then burn the old coop where it stands.
I think I will get rid of the boys and look after the girl...such a shame as the big cockerel is a stunning chicken.
I will update pictures of my coop as I go along.
Engin
I have also attached a photo of the message I sent the old owner, still awaiting his reply.
I will make the new coop a priority and then burn the old coop where it stands.
I think I will get rid of the boys and look after the girl...such a shame as the big cockerel is a stunning chicken.
I will update pictures of my coop as I go along.
Engin
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Yes I expect you're right Dinosaw. The feathering on the third boy is a bit underdeveloped and I'm not at all experienced with cockerels as you know! So if there are three boys, that might make decisions easier?
Yes, it would be good to talk to the RSPCA and see if they could put some pressure on the owner and maybe inspect the birds he took with him. Though my frustration at their failure to help when I reported a field full of starving horses in freezing conditions with no liquid water makes me dubious about how effective they might be for 'only chickens.' At least Engin could tell the previous owner he had reported them, or was going to do so, as either culling them or treating them will entail quite a bit of money which doesn't seem at all fair.
Yes, it would be good to talk to the RSPCA and see if they could put some pressure on the owner and maybe inspect the birds he took with him. Though my frustration at their failure to help when I reported a field full of starving horses in freezing conditions with no liquid water makes me dubious about how effective they might be for 'only chickens.' At least Engin could tell the previous owner he had reported them, or was going to do so, as either culling them or treating them will entail quite a bit of money which doesn't seem at all fair.
dinosaw
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Well you've certainly had a baptism of fire Engin and it looks like you are doing all the right things. It's not ideal but hopefully you will find yourself keeping chickens for many years to come and everything you learn now will stand you in good stead. Good luck with treating the mite, while you are at it given the conditions they've been in next time you manage to pick them up have a look under the wings and around the tail feathers just to make sure you haven't got anything crawling or any lice eggs and you can treat that at the same time.
If you are going to keep any of them, and if you like one of the cockerels, why not keep him too? You do only need one, but if he's a nice bird you could persevere with him as well as the girls. Most of us don't have the room to keep cockerels, but you do, if you want him.
Bear in mind though, that keeping any if them may make it more difficult to get new pullets unless you divide the space and keep them separate, which would mean two smaller coops maybe. But you'll find that you will need two coops anyway, if only to isolate new birds for quarantine when you get them in the future.
Bear in mind though, that keeping any if them may make it more difficult to get new pullets unless you divide the space and keep them separate, which would mean two smaller coops maybe. But you'll find that you will need two coops anyway, if only to isolate new birds for quarantine when you get them in the future.
Hi Everyone,
Thought I'd bring you up to date with my progress, I've spoken to a friend who has spoken to a farmer who is going to take all the chickens to his farm so they can enjoy there retirement, he is aware of all the issues and I've told him I'm happy to contribute to there getting better as such. I will continue to build the new coop ready for the new hens which I can collect next week at some point, going to get a mix of light Sussex, black Sussex and we also like the barred hens.
I will only build one coup for the time being and will use a horse stable I have as a quartine area should I need to.
When I do get the new hens what would be the best advice to get them used to there coup ? I've read that you should keep them locked in there for a few days so they know this is home ? Is that correct ?
Thanks
Engin
Thought I'd bring you up to date with my progress, I've spoken to a friend who has spoken to a farmer who is going to take all the chickens to his farm so they can enjoy there retirement, he is aware of all the issues and I've told him I'm happy to contribute to there getting better as such. I will continue to build the new coop ready for the new hens which I can collect next week at some point, going to get a mix of light Sussex, black Sussex and we also like the barred hens.
I will only build one coup for the time being and will use a horse stable I have as a quartine area should I need to.
When I do get the new hens what would be the best advice to get them used to there coup ? I've read that you should keep them locked in there for a few days so they know this is home ? Is that correct ?
Thanks
Engin
Hi Engin, what a relief for you. That sounds a very good solution, and you will have a chance to start off with young, healthy birds in a clean setup.
How are you getting on with the new coop? Would you like to post designs/photos? We love seeing other people's creations, as you'll have seen from previous threads about coop building, and some of us may be able to offer helpful advice as well.
It would be good to get some chicken netting and posts, which you can use at first to enclose the area around the coop when the girls arrive. They do need a chance to orientate themselves at first, have a look around, and find the feeder and drinker, and as you won't be putting the feeder or drinker actually in the coop, they won't have access to either if you shut them up before roosting time. But if you can pen them near to the coop they won't all go wandering off and not know where to come back to, either. They may need help to find out where to go at bedtime at first - more about how to do that later, maybe. You can gradually extend the netting area once they begin to settle in. As you have a lovely big garden, you can subsequently use the netting to divide the grass area and rest one part at a time, (only plan it so you don't need to move the coop, as chickens get very upset and puzzled if their home is moved, even by a small amount!) As this will be a new flock, all arriving together from the same place, you won't need to separate them for quarantine this time, but netting is useful for separating birds eg if you subsequently introduce new ones to an established flock, and of course if you find foxes are a problem you can get a generator as well. Presumably you seem to live in a fox- free area as they've survived there for quite a while, but don't get complacent, foxes do move around, at this time of year they've got cubs to feed as well as themselves, and will kill the lot in a few minutes if they find your precious new girls.
You need to plan for a dry area to shelter them in bad weather and, most important, to keep the feeder dry so the pellets go on flowing and don't go mouldy in damp conditions. One way is to make a ramp and put the coop on legs so they can get underneath, and also this is better for your back when collecting eggs or cleaning out.
One small point - how are you getting on with actually settling in to your new home, yourselves? I bet you didn't bargain for chickens to take up so much time, effort and interest!
How are you getting on with the new coop? Would you like to post designs/photos? We love seeing other people's creations, as you'll have seen from previous threads about coop building, and some of us may be able to offer helpful advice as well.
It would be good to get some chicken netting and posts, which you can use at first to enclose the area around the coop when the girls arrive. They do need a chance to orientate themselves at first, have a look around, and find the feeder and drinker, and as you won't be putting the feeder or drinker actually in the coop, they won't have access to either if you shut them up before roosting time. But if you can pen them near to the coop they won't all go wandering off and not know where to come back to, either. They may need help to find out where to go at bedtime at first - more about how to do that later, maybe. You can gradually extend the netting area once they begin to settle in. As you have a lovely big garden, you can subsequently use the netting to divide the grass area and rest one part at a time, (only plan it so you don't need to move the coop, as chickens get very upset and puzzled if their home is moved, even by a small amount!) As this will be a new flock, all arriving together from the same place, you won't need to separate them for quarantine this time, but netting is useful for separating birds eg if you subsequently introduce new ones to an established flock, and of course if you find foxes are a problem you can get a generator as well. Presumably you seem to live in a fox- free area as they've survived there for quite a while, but don't get complacent, foxes do move around, at this time of year they've got cubs to feed as well as themselves, and will kill the lot in a few minutes if they find your precious new girls.
You need to plan for a dry area to shelter them in bad weather and, most important, to keep the feeder dry so the pellets go on flowing and don't go mouldy in damp conditions. One way is to make a ramp and put the coop on legs so they can get underneath, and also this is better for your back when collecting eggs or cleaning out.
One small point - how are you getting on with actually settling in to your new home, yourselves? I bet you didn't bargain for chickens to take up so much time, effort and interest!
Hi Marigold,
Thanks for your reply again.
This is the frame so far...you can see the door section already in place, which measures 12" wide by 16" high. I have a grill in place which which is smaller in size for the air flow.
The width is 1.5m wide by 1.8m in length.
I plan to use 2x4 timber for the perch allowing 12" of space per chicken. Each perch will be 12" from the wall with a head height of 20". I plan to make a pitched roof shortly.
The roosting boxes will be 12" x 12" and will be on the floor of the coop with access from the rear.
Thanks
Engin.
Thanks for your reply again.
This is the frame so far...you can see the door section already in place, which measures 12" wide by 16" high. I have a grill in place which which is smaller in size for the air flow.
The width is 1.5m wide by 1.8m in length.
I plan to use 2x4 timber for the perch allowing 12" of space per chicken. Each perch will be 12" from the wall with a head height of 20". I plan to make a pitched roof shortly.
The roosting boxes will be 12" x 12" and will be on the floor of the coop with access from the rear.
Thanks
Engin.
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dinosaw
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The design sounds fine Engin. I wouldn't go bigger than 2 x 2 on the perches though or they will be too big, 12" is ample room per chicken and you will probably find they only use about 6-8" of it as they like to cram together. Don't put the perches too high, about 5-6 inches off the floor will be enough and also make sure you have air vents on either side of the coop just below roof height as ventilation is important.
The ideal option for enclosing your chickens and keeping them safe outside is electric netting and is really worth considering. I have seen that bit of advice about keeping chickens in the coop for 2-3 days before letting them out and just want to say that it is total utter rubbish, I don't know where it came from originally but suspect it is from someone in a commercial operation with a huge barn because in a small coop it is asking for trouble.
The ideal option for enclosing your chickens and keeping them safe outside is electric netting and is really worth considering. I have seen that bit of advice about keeping chickens in the coop for 2-3 days before letting them out and just want to say that it is total utter rubbish, I don't know where it came from originally but suspect it is from someone in a commercial operation with a huge barn because in a small coop it is asking for trouble.
dinosaw said:
Hi Dinosaw,
I was putting 2 x 4 as I read that it was good for there feet and in winter they liked to sit on them...but I can change it to 2 x 2.
Also there roosting boxes were going to be on the floor level with access from the back so was going to put there perches around 16" off ground so they were higher than the roosting boxes ?
I will add an air vent to the back of the coop also...
Thanks
Engin
What are you hoping to use for the roof, Engin? Avoid roofing felt over a chipboard base as the layers between felt and wood will be a haven for redmite, which will lay eggs in there and be totally ineradicable. Green or black corrugated roofing such as Onduline or Wickes' own brand is a good choice as its only one layer, and the corrugations provide excellent high-level ventilation.
The coop looks very good, although as I said before it would be even better if you could either put it on legs, or support it on concrete blocks, to give enough height for the hens to get underneath for shade and shelter (and digging!)
How will you get to the floor to clean out the droppings? Some coops have the back wall as a removeable door, and the floor surface flat, with no edges raised at the door end, so it's easy to sweep out messy bedding. Avoid having to lift if the roof and lean in to get at it, as you won't be able to clean the corners and it will be hard on your back as well.
Also, make the perches easily removeable and try to design them with the minimum of contact with the supports where redmite could creep into the joins. On my Green Frog coop the perches simply slot through holes in the coop sides and are secured by metal linch pins on the outside walls.
The coop looks very good, although as I said before it would be even better if you could either put it on legs, or support it on concrete blocks, to give enough height for the hens to get underneath for shade and shelter (and digging!)
How will you get to the floor to clean out the droppings? Some coops have the back wall as a removeable door, and the floor surface flat, with no edges raised at the door end, so it's easy to sweep out messy bedding. Avoid having to lift if the roof and lean in to get at it, as you won't be able to clean the corners and it will be hard on your back as well.
Also, make the perches easily removeable and try to design them with the minimum of contact with the supports where redmite could creep into the joins. On my Green Frog coop the perches simply slot through holes in the coop sides and are secured by metal linch pins on the outside walls.
dinosaw
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For me 16" is a bit high in what is a relatively enclosed space but by all means give it a go, it's not as if you can't bring it down later if it's not being used. In my experience the birds train easier to lower perches than higher ones in small houses as they can find it difficult to get up. The perches don't need to be hugely higher than the nest boxes, just higher as they are meant to pick the highest place to roost. The birds like to wrap their toes round the ends of the perch when they roost and 4 inches is too wide for that, which reminds me that the edges need to be chamfered so they aren't sharp, they aren't meant to be sitting on them so again I'm not really sure where people are getting that from. The only problem you may have with the nest boxes at the back is that the birds also like to sleep as far away from the door as possible but you can train them when you first get them by blocking access before they start laying so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Also think about how easy it's going to be to reach in to the perches when they're roosting, either to lift a bird on to a perch from a nestbox, or when you're integrating new birds and they're sleeping together for the first time, or to remove a bird after roosting if necessary, without making them all flap and panic. A removeable side, or back door, is helpful here, too. Maybe that's why many coops have nestboxes at the sides?
Hi guys,
I've changed the coop around slightly, I have put the nesting boxes on the left about a foot back from the door, I will now put the perches on the opposite side long ways.
I will create a large back door at the rear for cleaning purpose's and also the will be doors to access the nesting boxes.
I still need to sand down and paint the inside of the coop.
On the outside I will have a slight raised roof at the front to low point at the back. The whole coop is to be clad in tongue and grove before painting.
Marigold I have took on your point about room under the coop and will create a platform for the coop to sit on.
Dinosaw again I have took on what you said and will lower the perch level.
Please let me know your thoughts.
Engin
I've changed the coop around slightly, I have put the nesting boxes on the left about a foot back from the door, I will now put the perches on the opposite side long ways.
I will create a large back door at the rear for cleaning purpose's and also the will be doors to access the nesting boxes.
I still need to sand down and paint the inside of the coop.
On the outside I will have a slight raised roof at the front to low point at the back. The whole coop is to be clad in tongue and grove before painting.
Marigold I have took on your point about room under the coop and will create a platform for the coop to sit on.
Dinosaw again I have took on what you said and will lower the perch level.
Please let me know your thoughts.
Engin
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dinosaw
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Hi Engin
It's looking good. I would suggest a small lip to the front of the nest boxes so that all of the bedding doesn't get scratched out and the dirty bedding doesn't get pushed in, also do the same with the entrance again so that they don't scratch all their bedding out. For exterior materials tongue and groove looks nicer but 12mm exterior ply is a better material with regards to harbouring red mite as it has less joints for mite to hide in, of course because it doesn't look great then that might be a compromise too far for you which I can understand. I forgot to say that the grill to the front is a little bit big I would cover the bottom half of it or it will let too much draft in when there is one at the back as well, the idea is to let plenty of air in but not create a through draft anywhere near level the birds are roosting. I would also use a smaller grade of mesh, you would be surprised how small a gap a weasel can squeeze through. Hope this doesn't sound critical because it's certainly not meant to be, it's just nice to give people the chance to not make the mistakes you've made yourself.
It's looking good. I would suggest a small lip to the front of the nest boxes so that all of the bedding doesn't get scratched out and the dirty bedding doesn't get pushed in, also do the same with the entrance again so that they don't scratch all their bedding out. For exterior materials tongue and groove looks nicer but 12mm exterior ply is a better material with regards to harbouring red mite as it has less joints for mite to hide in, of course because it doesn't look great then that might be a compromise too far for you which I can understand. I forgot to say that the grill to the front is a little bit big I would cover the bottom half of it or it will let too much draft in when there is one at the back as well, the idea is to let plenty of air in but not create a through draft anywhere near level the birds are roosting. I would also use a smaller grade of mesh, you would be surprised how small a gap a weasel can squeeze through. Hope this doesn't sound critical because it's certainly not meant to be, it's just nice to give people the chance to not make the mistakes you've made yourself.
