I have a Japanese hen whom has been sick since the beginning of January. First, shortly before she got sick our eldest hen died from what I think is the same thing. Her only symptom was gasping for air during bed time. Other then that she played and ate fine.We had a vet see her and they gave her Baytril, but after the second dose she passed away. Now I have another hen who is doing the same thing.... gasping for air at bed time and also while being held. At first, she played and ate fine as well but eventually she became weak, lethargic and not eating well.She now has also developed swollen eyes. She has seen 4 vets and has been on Baytril twice and Clavamox once. Now she is on SMZ-TMP. After her third vet visit I discovered she and our other babies had bugs. I treated that and as far as I know that problem is gone. Her last vet visit I was told she is probably severely anemic from the bugs which I had been already trying to treat her for, but I don't think this is what is wrong with her.I've done everything I can think of and don't want to give up on her.No one knows what is wrong with her.Please help if possible.I also wanted to add that just recently I noticed that 3 of my hens(they are sitting on eggs) faces look like they are turning yellow around their eyes and beaks? I started them on scratch grain about a month ago and they have been eating eggs a little more often then usual....could this be why or am I getting more sick hens? Any advice would be great even if it is just an idea! Lilybug and I thank you from the bottom of our hearts!Note*Her gasping is ONLY at bedtime and while being held?
HELP! Gasping for air/Swollen eyes?
- Thread starter Motherhen
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rick
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Hi Motherhen,
I'm sure someone here will be able to help and maybe recognise the specific symptoms.
A couple of suggestions that jump to mind -
Not sure where you are but in the UK Flubenvet is the only licenced wormer that is properly effective hete. Have they been wormed?
I know that antibiotics have to be chosen following a diagnosis but I guess your vet is best placed to prescribe. For example, Mycoplasma requires an antibiotic that is tailored for it. General all rounders won't (or are unlikely to) work and the wrong antibiotic is worse than nothing but the course must be completed.
Gasping only at bed time or being held sounds odd. I wonder if it's to do with stress in some way. I'm totally guessing now.
I'm sure someone here will be able to help and maybe recognise the specific symptoms.
A couple of suggestions that jump to mind -
Not sure where you are but in the UK Flubenvet is the only licenced wormer that is properly effective hete. Have they been wormed?
I know that antibiotics have to be chosen following a diagnosis but I guess your vet is best placed to prescribe. For example, Mycoplasma requires an antibiotic that is tailored for it. General all rounders won't (or are unlikely to) work and the wrong antibiotic is worse than nothing but the course must be completed.
Gasping only at bed time or being held sounds odd. I wonder if it's to do with stress in some way. I'm totally guessing now.
Hello Rick, Thank you for the reply! We did have them wormed twice. Three of the 4 vet visits Lilybug went to; they did a feces float and all 3 were clear of worms.I was thinking gapeworm but I don't think her symptoms quite add up to that. It is so hard because many illnesses and diseases have a lot of similar symptoms.I'm starting to think it may be Aspergillosis, but really don't know because the gasping is only at particular times.I am so heart broken that she is going through this and I can't figure out what is wrong so I can help her. She is so strong for such a little thing to hang in there this long! Thanks again.
dinosaw
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Hello Motherhen
With regards to your sitting hens their yellow faces are most likely a result of a build up in carotene levels as they will not be laying and using it up in the yolks so in all probability nothing to worry about there.
The respiratory problem is a strange one. The vets probably figured that it was something like infectious bronchitis or mycoplasma which is why they have given antibiotics. When you say she is gasping for air at bed time do you mean while roosting on the perch or just generally at nightime, if it is while perching would this put her in a similar position to when she is being held. Just wondering if there is something in common in her posture which would suggest something is blocking her air sacs from moving normally. Does she share her house with any other hens? aspergillosis is caused by fungus, normally from damp bedding so you would most likely be seeing the same symptoms in them.
With regards to your sitting hens their yellow faces are most likely a result of a build up in carotene levels as they will not be laying and using it up in the yolks so in all probability nothing to worry about there.
The respiratory problem is a strange one. The vets probably figured that it was something like infectious bronchitis or mycoplasma which is why they have given antibiotics. When you say she is gasping for air at bed time do you mean while roosting on the perch or just generally at nightime, if it is while perching would this put her in a similar position to when she is being held. Just wondering if there is something in common in her posture which would suggest something is blocking her air sacs from moving normally. Does she share her house with any other hens? aspergillosis is caused by fungus, normally from damp bedding so you would most likely be seeing the same symptoms in them.
Normally she would be sleeping in one of those dog crates with pinewood chips but since she is ill we set up an area on our couch so I can keep a close eye on her.I'm up almost all night worrying about her. So it is when she is roosting and when I pick her up(both hands on both sides of her over her wings).She does take naps during the day of course but not long enough to get the gasping going on.This makes you want to think that pressure underneath is causing the problem and she did get xrays that the vet replied with " I am not completely sure but it looks like she is lacking airsacs and her bones look weak but it may just be the image of the xray".I instantly started her on vitamins and supplemental nutritional food.Oh, we let her best buddy sleep with her at night.I don't believe it is respiratory because she has been on so many meds and nothing has helped. Plus she does not sneeze,cough,and no discharge. Only new symptom is the swollen eyes unless it is an reaction from her new meds she is on.Thank you Rick.I wanted to add that other then the yellow faces, our other chickens are fine. However, our eldest hen passed away from the same breathing problem.Our eldest only suffered from it for 2 days... I think the stress of it was to much to handle at her age, but it was only at roosting time. Does this still rule out Aspergillosis?Could this be the outcome from their bug infestation? We lost our eldest before we even discovered the bugs. I'm just so confused!!!
I wonder if you live in the USA, Motherhen? What exactly are you feeding them on? When you say 'scratch corn," do you mean maize? This is sometimes used to make the flesh of chickens look yellow so if they're having a lot, it may be colouring their skin and beaks. If your birds are getting this as their main diet, it's very unbalanced and they will also become very fat and the fat will deposit around their ovaries, which can have fatal consequences. It's OK to feed corn in very small quantities as an occasional treat, just a sprinkle, but their main feed needs to be layers pellets, which have balanced amounts of protein, carbs, minerals and vitamins, to support health and laying, plus green food daily.
I would also like to know what sort of parasites you mean when you say they have 'bugs' - do you mean red mite, which is debilitating and can cause anaemia, and what have you been doing to clear up the problem? If it's redmite, you have to treat the coop as well as dusting the hens with redmite powder. it's difficult to eradicate and will need persistent, thorough weekly cleaning and spraying with a good redmite killer.
Lastly, what wormer have you been using and is it one specifically for poultry?
The breathing difficulties and swollen eyes do seem to suggest mycoplasma, and as this is highly infectious the others may be passing it around as well. How many do you have? I would strongly advise you to avoid breeding any chicks from your hens eggs this year, as it can be passed on in the egg, and also from the mother hen to the babies. Do not sell or pass in any of your current flock to anyone else either, or their birds will also be at risk. And of course, don't get any new birds until you're sure the problem has been sorted.
I would also like to know what sort of parasites you mean when you say they have 'bugs' - do you mean red mite, which is debilitating and can cause anaemia, and what have you been doing to clear up the problem? If it's redmite, you have to treat the coop as well as dusting the hens with redmite powder. it's difficult to eradicate and will need persistent, thorough weekly cleaning and spraying with a good redmite killer.
Lastly, what wormer have you been using and is it one specifically for poultry?
The breathing difficulties and swollen eyes do seem to suggest mycoplasma, and as this is highly infectious the others may be passing it around as well. How many do you have? I would strongly advise you to avoid breeding any chicks from your hens eggs this year, as it can be passed on in the egg, and also from the mother hen to the babies. Do not sell or pass in any of your current flock to anyone else either, or their birds will also be at risk. And of course, don't get any new birds until you're sure the problem has been sorted.
She will prefer it if you pick her up by putting one hand lightly over her shoulders and sliding the other hand under her tummy and holding her legs with a finger in between them to cushion them. Close your hand firmly but gently round her legs, move your other arm over her wings and lift her with her body supported on your hand. This way, you are protected from flailing legs and scratches and the hens body isn't squashed as you lift her up.
She's obviously a very special hen - how old is she?
She's obviously a very special hen - how old is she?
rick
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That last post was dinosaw (more experience in these things than me!)
She can't be missing air sacks surely, and if so then it must be some genetic fault maybe. How old is she? Related to your previous hen with similar symptoms? Is her crop OK, filling and emptying normally?
She can't be missing air sacks surely, and if so then it must be some genetic fault maybe. How old is she? Related to your previous hen with similar symptoms? Is her crop OK, filling and emptying normally?
dinosaw
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I was wondering if the two birds were related too Rick. The best stab I could take at it given what you have said Motherhen is that when in the positions where she gasps either her rib cage isn't able to move properly or that the position is causing something internally to press against one or more air sacs and inhibit them, tumors, abcesses, enlarged organs could have this effect. I can see why you would look at aspergillosis with the eyes and the gasping but it doesn't explain why only when roosting, in any case keeping her away from her previous roost where the mold spores could have been present is the only treatment for this so you are doing the right thing if this happens to be what she is suffering from.
Pray for my baby! I'll try picking her up the way you recommend!Thank you!rick said:
Lilybug is 3 years old and has no relation at all with our hen who passed away with the same gasping problem.She doesn't have sour crop and I think it is filling and emptying properly. She doesn't eat like she use to so her cop doesn't get full like it use too.Her droppings look fine and she is not eggbound and no evidence of any fluid retaining in her abdomen Sorry about the confusion.
07 Thank you kindly!dinosaw said:
There is no relation between our two girls. I called the vet who took her xrays to ask if they could email me a copy. I can post it when I receive it if anyone is interested in taking a look.That makes me feel better you saying I may be doing the right thing because I feel like I'm failing her.I've given her my heart and soul but simply can't figure this one out. Thank you so very very much!
I'm sorry we're not able to be more help, Motherhen. None of us on here are qualified vets, just poultry keepers with varying degrees of experience, so if your vets are puzzled, we're not likely to be able to add much to their opinion. We all feel the same way about our birds, and not knowing exactly what is the problem makes it worse, doesn't it?
As she's had 4 courses of antibiotics, I expect her immune system is very low by now, so giving her supplements is probably a good idea. You didn't say where you live, it sounds a bit as if you're overseas, but here in the UK there's a product called Beryl's Friendly Bacteria, a type of Yogurt probiotic especially for poultry, which quite a few of us have found very helpful in restoring chickens after antibiotics or indeed other gut problems such as sour crop. I don't know if it's available where you live but if it is, it would be worth a try.
See link http://www.berylsbackyard.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=7&Itemid=5
Also, I'm still wondering what you used to treat the bugs you said they were affected by, and also what sort of bugs they were. If you used a spot on such as Ivermectin, this might be adding to the load on her system, in combination with all the antibiotics, as it's pretty strong stuff and not actually licensed for use on poultry except at the vets discretion.
I think that, as Dinosaw says, you're obviously doing your best for her and she's a very lucky little girl. Maybe it will be best to just continue with the TLC, try to build her up with nourishing food, keep her warm, and if possible avoid any more drugs to let her system clear itself whilst she's so run down.
As she's had 4 courses of antibiotics, I expect her immune system is very low by now, so giving her supplements is probably a good idea. You didn't say where you live, it sounds a bit as if you're overseas, but here in the UK there's a product called Beryl's Friendly Bacteria, a type of Yogurt probiotic especially for poultry, which quite a few of us have found very helpful in restoring chickens after antibiotics or indeed other gut problems such as sour crop. I don't know if it's available where you live but if it is, it would be worth a try.
See link http://www.berylsbackyard.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=7&Itemid=5
Also, I'm still wondering what you used to treat the bugs you said they were affected by, and also what sort of bugs they were. If you used a spot on such as Ivermectin, this might be adding to the load on her system, in combination with all the antibiotics, as it's pretty strong stuff and not actually licensed for use on poultry except at the vets discretion.
I think that, as Dinosaw says, you're obviously doing your best for her and she's a very lucky little girl. Maybe it will be best to just continue with the TLC, try to build her up with nourishing food, keep her warm, and if possible avoid any more drugs to let her system clear itself whilst she's so run down.
rick
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I just wanted to add that turmeric is renowned, particularly in India, as a cure for everything! There's some evidence behind that (not for everything of course) but it is claimed to be good for cell repair, particularly when accompanied by a pinch of ground black pepper.
Apparently the curcumin it contains is beneficial but not easily absorbed, hence the pepper which helps in the enzyme chemistry (or something like that)
I see some producers of high quality feed are using it as an ingredient. It can, at least, do no harm!
I give mine a quarter level teaspoon per hen with a pinch of pepper every day in their mash. The dog and I have some too!
Apparently the curcumin it contains is beneficial but not easily absorbed, hence the pepper which helps in the enzyme chemistry (or something like that)
I see some producers of high quality feed are using it as an ingredient. It can, at least, do no harm!
I give mine a quarter level teaspoon per hen with a pinch of pepper every day in their mash. The dog and I have some too!
Marigold said:
No reason to apologize. I'm live in the US,Georgia and finding a vet that treats chickens is very difficult. I thought opinions and ideas from those who have chickens might help steer me in the right direction. Sometimes hands on is the most effective way to learn.And YES, not knowing exactly what the problem is makes me feel helpless! If only chickens could talk or if we could understand their language!I totally agree about the antibiotics! The last time she went to the vet was 2 weeks ago.They said she is just extremely anemic yet prescribed SMz-TMP.I told my husband that she has been on so many meds that it couldn't be good for her and none seem to be helping, so I decided not to give it to her. She had a extra bad day 5 days ago so I started her on it.Thinking about stopping now...not sure what to do.Throughout this whole ordeal I have been pushing plain yogurt because like you said those meds also take away the good bacteria.Never heard of Beryl but will look into it.As far as the bug problem we had, I'm not sure what kind they were. They lingered around the vent area of our chickens and were a light brown and oval shaped. Although we were hesitant, we used Ivermectin drops because we couldn't find anything other then DE Earth and Manna Pro Poultry Protector Spray to treat parasites in chickens. Everything seemed to be not labeled for chicken.I even called numerous vets asking if it were safe and if there was safer alternative.They didn't know of anything else and said one drop on the back of her neck since she only weighs one pound. The Ivermectin was used about 2 months ago and DE Earth is sprinkled in their pine wood shavings daily.About every two days I spray under their wings and around their vent area with the Poultry Protector just to be safe..I had her xrays that was done at the end of January transferred to the vet she last saw thinking maybe they might see something the other vet did not.Eventually if I can come up with the money I will ask if they can do more xrays because a lot of internal changes may have occurred since then.Right now I'm going to do all I can to keep her strength up and keep her comfortable along with lots of hugs and kisses!Although you all feel you aren't helping....YOU ARE and I THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
I wonder in you've noticed the Poultrykeeper main website? (Link st the bottom if each Forum page.) it's a veritable poultry encyclopaedia, very useful and practical. You might be interested in the section on ?External Problems, see https://poultrykeeper.com/external-problems/ which describes various skin infestations such as chicken lice and Northern Fowl Mite. Whatever yours has got, Ivermectin is probably the normal treatment, in moderation.
Turmeric is often sold in food shops. It's a yellow powder of plant origin, often used as a natural food colouring, eg to make rice golden,as well as some health uses.
Turmeric is often sold in food shops. It's a yellow powder of plant origin, often used as a natural food colouring, eg to make rice golden,as well as some health uses.
