Help !! Chickens dying

Leahxxx0

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Help needed we had 13 chickens most of which were raised from day old by us , they are now at about 16 weeks but over the last 3 weeks we have lost 5 to an unknown cause can anyone help determine what is taking my lovely girls


Facts

1) Each chicken has Passed one after the other on average 4 days apart

2) they look perfectly healthy and are eating and drinking well then they go sleepy and pass within 24hrs

3) We have Checked for mites and no sigh, my children hassle them every day and they have now iching as well

4) we are giving work treatment but have seen no evidence of worms

5) they are not free roaming so unlikely they have been in contact with a poison

6) they get cleaned out regularly so dirty environment shouldn’t be a cause

HELP I can think what to do ?
 
Hello Leah and welcome to the forum. I’m sorry it’s at such a worrying time for you.
You give quite a lot of helpful detail but I wonder if you can add more.

Where do you live, is it in the UK?
What breed are they, where did you get them from as chicks, and are they all females?
What are their droppings like?
Are they all itching? If so, where, is it round their head or on their bodies? Any red skin?
What exactly have they been eating, both as main feed and treats?
Do their combs appear to be a different colour than normal? I know they won’t really have combs at 16 weeks but maybe the little bit that they have may tell you something.
When you say ‘your children hassle them every day’ what do you mean?
What worm treatment have you given them?
When one becomes sick, what is her breathing like, is it audible as if she has a chest infection?
What sort of a coop do they sleep in, and how big is it? Do you shut it up at night or leave it open for ventilation? What size is their run?
Are they in with any older chickens?
Could you send some photos of living chickens and perhaps of a sick or dead one?
A possible cause is anaemia from bloodsucking redmite in the coop overnight. The mites will not be apparent in the birds in daytime but will crawl out and feed on the hens, causing painful irritation. Have a good look at the perch ends and any other nooks and crannies. Look in the Pests and Predators section for more posts about redmite and how to deal with it.
People on here will be keen to welcome you and to help if we can, but please remember we are not vets and can only advise from our own experience of keeping chickens. Do you have a local vet that you could go to?

See link for how to post photos;
http://poultrykeeperforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=11143
 
Also see article on the main Poultrykeeper site, about redmite. This is fantastically detailed and helpful, it has photos of what to look for, and should enable you to know if this is your problem.
https://poultrykeeper.com/external-problems/red-mite/
 
Hi Marigold

I have answered your questions below thank you in advance for the help

Where do you live, is it in the UK?
we are in Ashbourne Derbyshire

What breed are they,

we have a mixture of the following

Orpington’s ( lost one)
Niederrheiner ( male ) only one left we have lost all three of the female of this breed
Sliver lace Wyandotte’s
Gold Brahma ( was female lost the other day)
Rock star
Sussex star

where did you get them from as chicks, and are they all females?

We have just one male rest female
Got them from a rare breed poultry farm close to we’re we live

What are their droppings like?

Some time a bit wet and we have noticed a little blood but no worms that we can see in the blood some is just a little others have what looks like blood clots and Some are normal

Are they all itching? If so, where, is it round their head or on their bodies? Any red skin?

No iching at all no redness no sign of any feather bugs or red mite on birds or in coop

What exactly have they been eating, both as main feed and treats?
They have layers pellets and corn of wheat shoots as a treat but have stopped these since we lost the first so they are currently having layers with worm powder on and a poultry spice mix there water has a little apple cider vinegar and garlic in

Do their combs appear to be a different colour than normal? I know they won’t really have combs at 16 weeks but maybe the little bit that they have may tell you something.

The combs we a little pale but only when they started going sleepy about a day before they passed

When you say ‘your children hassle them every day’ what do you mean?
Sorry not hassle that must have been an auto correct they “handle “ them they have held them every day since they were a day old my 7 year old goes out most days a talks and sings to them ?

What worm treatment have you given them?

When one becomes sick, what is her breathing like, is it audible as if she has a chest infection?

There breathing just becomes more shallow no
Chest infection that I can hear

What sort of a coop do they sleep in, and how big is it? Do you shut it up at night or leave it open for ventilation? What size is their run?

They sleep in a large green frog coop
They have a eggloo but they are not interested in going in it, they all just go in the green frog one which is for up to 12 birds
They do get shut in at night the coop has an automatic opener which is set to light sense mode
They have a run that is 4m by 5m ( 20sqm) we are currently fencing another area for them to roam which will give them another 1/2 an acre that has been seeded with chicken friendly grass and and pea shoot mix
The coop has a vent at the side that is left open


Are they in with any older chickens?
There are three older chickens but not much older only 8 weeks between the older ones and younger

Could you send some photos of living chickens and perhaps of a sick or dead one?

We have no pictures of the sick ones and we have had to have funerals for the ones that have passed we have very upset children
 
Hi Leah, that’s very helpful. Could I confirm that the worming treatment you are using is Flubenvet? This is the only effective worm treatment licensed for use on chickens. In any case, a severe worm infestation is unlikely in such young birds kept in clean conditions.

Your setup sounds fine for them, it sounds as if you’re doing everything for them that they need. Plenty of space and a plastic coop, so redmite is less likely, and even if you did discover redmite it would be possible to take it to bits and throughly pressure wash it clean. I’ve got a G.F and have never had any redmite problems in the last ten years. Could you just confirm that you have actually removed the roosting bars and inspected the ends where they plug in to the holes in the sides? Any sign of the sort of infestation shown in the photos in the link I sent you?

If you can rule out redmite, poison, and worms, I wonder if you have contacted the breeder where you got them from, to find out if they are also having any problems with their stock? Are they vaccinated? (I realise this is very unlikely as you hatched most of them yourself and a full vaccination programme is seldom given to a few chicks raised at home.) But there could conceivably have been a genetic problem handed on in the egg, or an infection from bacteria or a virus on the shell laid by the parent hen, which is just emerging as they mature, especially if the parent stock wasn’t vaccinated. Before they succumb, do they move normally, or do they seem to have problems with their balance and tend to fall over? If so, this might indicate a neurological problem such as Mareks disease, which does often develop in young birds by about 20 weeks, but you would need a vets opinion to diagnose this, and its just a shot in the dark.
See https://poultrykeeper.com/nervous-system-problems/mareks-disease-chickens/
Do you have a good poultry vet where you live? Personally, as this seems to be serious, indeed fatal, and not easy to diagnose, I would advise ringing the vet, describing the problem and what you have been able to exclude as a possible cause, and ask for advice about bringing one or more of the remaining birds in for an appointment. If the worst happens and another one dies, please save the body and show it to the vet. If it is Mareks, this could easily be confirmed by a post-mortem,
I also hope that other experienced keepers on here will be able to comment on this, as I’m stuck to know what else to suggest. Do keep in touch, Leah, we all feel for you and know how upset and worried you and your children must be.
 
Given the age of the birds and the fact you are seeing blood in the poo, it is most likely to be coccidiosis. If that is the case they can be treated with Coxoid which you add to the water.
 
I'm not at all sure what this might be, the only thing which vaguely springs to mind from the possibility of blood in droppings is coccidiosis, but this usually presents in youngstock, not 16 week olds or even 13 week olds. If it was cocci, they would need to be put on Coxoid asap, and their litter changed and kept dry at all costs, speed is of the essence. And in any case, it may not be blood at all, it could be shed intestinal lining, which is normal.

As a general precaution, I would stop the worming process if you still doing it, and just feed good quality pellets/mash, only using treats if necessary to tempt an ill bird. I would also cut out everything else like garlic or ACV, this is so they are getting the best nutrition and their systems are not having to deal with anything else. I would also check around the vents if you haven't already to make sure there are no lice/mites hiding there.

Otherwise I would do as Marigold suggests and contact the breeder if you haven't already. The Neiderrheiners are a rare breed, it would be useful to know if they have had any other issues reported. Also, you may have a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated birds (the hybrids are moe likely to be vaccinated), which some people do not recommend keeping together. I am afraid that is out of my area of expertise.

Then I would take a bird (the worst one) to the vet (they may suggest waiting till one falls ill). If one dies, then I would get a post mortem done (unless the vet has given you a diagnosis) as some things like Mareks can only be diagnosed via PM. If its only 24 hours between becoming 'sleepy' and then dying, then that is quick, and not so usual. Normally a bird will mope about for longer or it will just keel over with no warning.

This is obviously a very worrying and upsetting time for you. I think by taking action you might feel a little better, because the cases you describe aren't common on the face of it, although admittedly I haven't been to look up more obscure things.
 
Hi Leah, it sounds as if you have two batches of chickens. Are these your first chickens, or have you kept poultry on your premises before?
Could you tell us more about the three older chickens? You say these are 8 weeks older than the others. What age were they when you first got them? Did you get them as young chicks, and then add some more younger ones a few weeks later, or did you go back and get some older birds after you got the younger chicks?
And how old were the younger chicks when you first got them?
I’m just wondering if all your birds arrived at the same time, in two age groups of older and younger chicks, or whether you have two batches because you went back later, and added some more. Also, have any of the older ones died, and if so, how old were they then?

It would also be helpful if you could post us the link to the breeder’s chicken farm. A possible problem with buying rare purebred birds is that they might come from a very small gene pool, and thus be inbred to some extent. Another is that the breeding birds might perhaps be shut up together as a small group of a cockerel and 2-4 hens and thus be in very close contact for some weeks without the benefits of sufficient space for normal free ranging. Much would then depend on standards of cleanliness and indeed, the health of the parents, to produce strong and healthy chicks.
When you visited the farm and got the chicks, were you able to form an opinion about the conditions the birds were kept in? I expect the chicks were all in together and the parent birds were somewhere else, but did the premises seem clean, with clean water drinkers etc? Were the chicks still young enough to need extra heat? At that stage, they would all be vulnerable to any kind of environmental infection, and in the case of Mareks this might arise from virus particles from the feather dust of previously infected birds lingering in the environment. It is fir this reason that, once present, Mareks is so difficult to eradicate, and therefore quite common in unvaccinated purebred flocks.
As Mrs Biscuit says, the most dangerous time for coccidiosis is usually at the chick stage, when the chicks are pecking around in a heated brooder in damp, contaminated bedding and picking up oocytes from each other’s infected poo. However, from what I have read, this is unlikely to appear in older birds, off heat and out of doors in normally clean conditions. If a lot of them were so badly affected that they actually died, I expect the blood in poo would be very noticeable.
See https://poultrykeeper.com/digestive-system-problems/coccidiosis-in-chickens/

I agree with Mrs B. that you need to talk to your vet about this. Something uncommon appears to be going on here, and whilst we can give advice from our own experience about common management or health problems, we can’t do more than hazard a guess about anything more serious, without seeing the birds or even photos. I hope we might have been able to fill in a bit more of the background and given you some leads to raise with the vet when you speak to them, and I hope very much that all will be well if you can get a professional opinion on whatever is hitting your flock so hard.
How are they this morning?
 
Morning Marigold


First thank you all for the advise marigold here are the answers to your question and we have ordered a kit to have there poo tested in hope that this will shed so light on the situation
Yes they have been on the flubenvet

Are these your first chickens, or have you kept poultry on your premises before?

Yes we brought 3 chickens at 16 week old ( sorry for the miss information first I thought they were 8 weeks but my husband informs me they were 16 weeks and we got 9 day old chicks at the same time

Could you tell us more about the three older chickens? You say these are 8 weeks older than the others. What age were they when you first got them?

The older chickens where 16 weeks when we got them and they were 1 x Sussex star 1x rock star 1 x speckled maran

Theses three birds went straight into the main coop / run

The younger day old chicks we got at the same time and we’re kept in under heat lamp for the first 12 weeks heat lamp was kept at right temp for the age and checked frequently during this process until ready to join the three larger bird out side we did slow integration on the new chicks and had no sign of any hen pecking the chicks had an area that they were small enough to get in to and out of during the first few weeks with the big hens so if they need a safe space they had it this was removed when they stoped using it
 
Sorry, Leah, I’m still not clear about how old your birds are now. In your first post you say

‘Help needed we had 13 chickens most of which were raised from day old by us , they are now at about 16 weeks but over the last 3 weeks we have lost 5 to an unknown cause can anyone help determine what is taking my lovely girls.”

and later you say

‘Yes we brought 3 chickens at 16 week old ( sorry for the miss information first I thought they were 8 weeks but my husband informs me they were 16 weeks and we got 9 day old chicks at the same time.’

So you’ve had all of them for 16 weeks, therefore the older three who arrived at 16 weeks are now about 32 weeks, and the day-old chicks are now about 16 weeks, is that right?

You've obviously done very well to raise and integrate the chicks successfully from day-old. You’re very lucky to have finished up with all females except for one cockerel, as whilst some breeds can be sexed at day old, most cannot. Are you sure they’re all females? Is the cockerel one of the day-old batch, or did you opt for him when you got the older three?

It sounds as if the three older ones may be normal commercial hybrids, probably bought in at 16 weeks by the breeder to supplement the choice available from their own home-bred purebred stock. If so, those three were probably vaccinated as chicks and growers in their first home. It would be good to confirm the vaccination status of both batches of your birds with the breeder, as if some are vaccinated and some are not, there might possibly be issues there. And if the purebreds were also vaccinated, that is relevant. Could you send the link to the breeder’s website, please? There may be information on there which will help.

You didn’t say whether the illness is so far confined to the younger birds, or whether the older ones are affected. Are they all well? If they were 16 weeks when you got them, 16 weeks ago, I would expect 32-week-old hybrids to be laying well by now. Have you had any eggs yet? Some photos of them would be really helpful if you’re not entirely sure how old they are. If you thought they were 8 weeks on arrival, they would have been very much smaller than they are now, like big chicks, a stage you will have seen your own day-olds go through as they began to grow up, entirely different from a 16-week-old, who would be like a nearly-full-grown adult hen but with a tiny comb and a lighter build.

Sorry about all the questions, Leah, we’re just trying to get a clearer picture of the background to all this, and to suggest ways to help you if you want to discuss it with your vet, or your breeder. I’m glad they’re all looking fine today, will give you a bit of a breather!
 
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