Head Shaking!!

C

craftycarrot

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Ello All !! I just wondered , a few of my chooks quite often shake their heads and Id heard this could be a sign of illness or distress , but my girls seem fine otherwise and theyve always done it as far as I can recall! Should I be concerned?CC
 
What breed ? I find some of my silkies that have really good pom-poms can do this if they cant see or get eye irritation from feathers--a pair of scissors and a mohican soon fixes it!. In non crested breeds -? ear mites,other mites,skin,sinus eye infection (incl. myco). If its not feather irritation and non responsive to mite treatment and no other symptoms , personally, Id ask vets opinion. Ros
 
i've got a hen that nods her head,from side to side.She has always done it and I think it's partly habit.Apparently her mum used to peck her head when she was a chick,but she is fine and it doesn't interfere in her daily life.
 
It seems to be mainly the black rocks, but most of my 10 chooks do it occasionally ?! theyre all hybrids , speckeldys , bluebelles , ambers and black rocks. Actually not noticed the bluebelles or speckledys doing it ! Weird! Will check them for mites , had red mite end of last summer , but think i got them under control, and dont they mainly hang out round the vent and under wings anyway! ? cheers for your help so far! CC
 
ALso , can you reccomend a good mite treatment , red mite seem resilient to most stuff , but dont know what would be best for other mites , how would I recognise other mites ? CC
 
Have they been wormed?

Check their nostrils are clear and eyes are clear of bubbles / fluid in the corner to illiminate respiratory infection - head shaking can be caused by Gape Worm.

Tim
 
PS - Red Mite will only usually be found in the house and not on the birds during the day. There are some products listed in the RED MITE page. Everyone uses something different but ultimately you will find they are incredibly hard to completely get rid of. Personally, I like pressure washer followed by diatom for a month afterwards but there are loads of different treatments and methods. One I want to try next time I have a problem is dilute bleach....an experiment waiting to happen!

Scaley leg mite will effect the scales on the legs and Northern Mite around the bottom - they look like dirt but if you look carefully at the base of feathers, they are moving... yuk. Bad mite infestations can get into the ear canal - so worth checking but effects birds with headgear more like Polands.

Good Luck. Tim
 
Cheers Tim , Theyre due a Flubenvet end od the month so I may bring that forward I think , they do occasionaly do the yawny gape thing too , but always have so wasnt worried about that! How would I be able to tell if it was mites causing it ? Or is that unlikely ? What about coiccidios-- or however thats spelt?! Does that have other symptoms I should look for ? I heard head shaking could be a symptom of that ! Cheers in advance! CC
 
Ah ! Sorry Tim ... Just reread your message , me being dim there ... Ill go check for mites a bit later ! Can you reccomend a good mite treatment for the birds... since it wont be red mite if its on the birds themselves! Flubenvet ordered! :D CC
 
I would look between the feathers all over and look for fast moving lice - they are easy enough to spot and check the bottom for Northern Mites -but other than that, I would be tempted to invest in a worm count first.

You can get them done by post quite quickly. The cost of a Worm egg count (worm eggs and coccidia) in a faeces sample is £12.26 at Minster Veterinary Practice - York. Contact details in our poultry friendly vets list.

Why I say this is they will identify what worms they have. If it is Gape Worm, I believe the dose of Flubenvet needs to be doubled and a withdrawal period used - if it is a bad infestation, you will need to repeat treatment at the right time intervals (the prepatent period of the worm species) to kill off the eggs that are picked up again off the ground and will hatch out after a given time. It is important to do this before they lay more eggs and the cycle is repeated.

I'm not a betting man but if I was, assuming there are no signs of respiratory problem, I'd go for worms.
 
:? Yikes ! A worm count ?! What does that involve ? Ive never heard of it ?! Also , I thought there was no egg withdrawal period with Flubevet?! Will get a good listen to the breathing tonight whilst they're tucked up to check on that ! I havent noticed them doing the yawny gape worm thing for a while , certainly no increase from the usual amount they do it , the head shaking has been going on for ages, with no other noticeable detriment to the birds, and theyre laying completely normally... would this still be typical if its was worms?? CC
 
Yawning / gasping / head shaking can be Gape Worm. I wouldn't like to say for sure without examining them but it's worth checking them out and a worm count by post will tell you either way. This is the most likely thing a vet would do IMO anyway but charge you alot more to send the sample off and give you the results.

The worm count - basically they look under a microscope and see whaich worm it is as well as count how many worms are in a given sample size. This then gives you a report of worm numbers and you know to worm and what to worm for.

Gapeworm eggs can survive for 9 months in the soil so if there is a high worm count, you will need to worm again before those eggs hatch again inside your birds and reach laying age. This is called the prepatent period and is different for each of the 6 worm species that could be the problem.

You are right, there is no egg withdrawal period for Flubenvet at the standard 30ppm dosage. I thought for gapeworm you needed to double the dosage for it to be effective (and then there is a withdrawal period) but I have checked the literature and I am wrong. It is a higher dose for Tapeworm, not Gapeworm.

Hope this helps.
 
Thanks Tim ,
I think before I do the worm count thing , Ill worm them the usual way... see if that sorts the problem , save spending anymore if I dont need to! So , if it stops the head shaking and gaping , would you say it can be fair to say it was gape worm and then worm again how much later would you say ? the chooks have totally destroyed anygrass we had so theyre scraping around on exposed soil/mud ... would this make it more likely that they would pick up nasty worms ?! If so , is there anything safe for the birds that you could reccommend putting on the garden ... i thought about bark chipping but someone mentioned to me that these maybe harmful for the birds?! One of my chooks , a black rock , has taken to speedwalking backwards (ive never seen anything so strange, has anyone else?!) a lady I know who owns chickens , said " sounds like could have a worm in the brain" , this sounds ridiculous to me , but could there be any truth in this , I thought it was just a funny quirk of hers?! She also has very matted dirty/dusty feathers on her breast ... could this be due to worms too .. or perhaps mites?! Its weird as the girls all seem pretty well otherwise , nice red combs, lively no discarge from ears or nostrils , tails nice and high!Thank you so much for your help so far , Ive had my girls for coming up to a year now , but I feel like Im constantly worrying and learning ..but theyre so funny and freindly theyre worth it! CC
 
Yes, mud is not good for worms. Ideally, you should change their pasture once in a while but it's not always possible although the freezing temperatures should help keep worm activity very low.

Yes, you could worm now - if it's gape worm, flubenvet should kill them - the prepatent period of Gape worm is 18 to 20 days so you'd need to treat again a few days before that - assuming it's Gape Worm and assuming you have a bad infection. If the infection level was low, the second treatment would not be required.

Bark chippings are what most people use - the sort you can buy to use on beds / play areas. I've never used them before so don't know a great deal about different types sorry.

I think the worm in the brain thing is a little far fetched - but they can effect the nervous system which can cause lots of strange things.
 
Thanks Tim ! Will look into getting some bark chippings, yeah , theyre back garden chickens , so no other pastures Im afraid,its quite a large garden they have the run of though, perhaps I could fence it down the middle, how much space can you get away with 10 chickens?Id heard the treatment on the bark chipping was bad for the chooks , but if other people are happily using them Ill give it a go! Started the Flubenvet yesterday, Im thinking , beings that I dont really know if its a bad infestation , if any at all , then if the head shaking stops after the first treatment , Ill do a second treatment a couple of weeks later as you suggested, just in case ! That wont do any harm right? The girls seem most unimpressed with the addition to their feed , but need must ! Big thank you once again ! CC
 
Yikes !! Just found this article !
" There are two types of mulch produced as a by-product from forestry. One is chopped bark and the other is wood chips. Sometimes the two are mixed together if many small branches and twigs are mulched. As a substrate for an aviary or pen, it’s marvellous as it’s free-draining, but the dreaded aspergillus fungus just loves bark on which to grow. This is the fungus which, if it gets into poultry lungs and airsacs, slowly kills them. It’s dangerous as the spores can hide inside the airsacs where antibiotics have little effect. The birds can often seem fine right up until the end, but sometimes they do look ill first. If diagnosed early, fogging the affected bird with the disinfectant F10 does work, but the timing is critical.

If, however, only wood chips are used, these are too hard for the aspergillus fungus to colonize, so if you have a source of wood chips with no bark, you can indeed use this as a substrate and get your pen better drained. "

Think I better give the bark chippings a miss , just in case.... any idea where I could get pure wood chip (thats not the same as sawdust/wood chips that we use for bedding is it ?!?!)

Cheers CC
 
No problem. Hope it sorts them out. I spent most of yesterday putting an article together on the Flubenvet 60g packs - it's information that Janssen (makers of Flubenvet) have given me and has some excellent diagrams explaining the prepatent period of the different worms. I've emailed them so they can log in and check they are happy with it but they are usually quite quick at responding. It would definately be worth you reading it when it's online. It will be on the front page of poultrykeeper.com once I get the OK.

As for space, I always say as much as possible. You can fit lots of chooks in a small space of course but this often leads to vices like feather pecking and boredom. If you keep them in a small run, they will appreciate coming out from time to time when you're around.

Good luck and let us know how you get on after treatment.
Tim.
 
OK - sounds like you need to look into the bark chippings a little further... I've never used them before so don't really know much about them.

I have seen bark chippings used in lots of runs mind you - people usually change them when they get soiled - not sure how often though...

Maybe you could start a new thread and paste that info into it again - you are more likely to get some people in the know answer you and it will help others too.

Tim
 
Thanks Tim , theyre not in a run at all .... free roaming over garden roughly 40ft by 30ft with high fences , was thinking of splitting garden in half to give the grass a chance!Im here most of the time anyway as Im self employed.Look forward to having a read of the flubenvet stuff.CC
 
OK ! I have wormed and de mited the chooks with diatom and theyre still shaking their heads!?!?! Ive noticed some greasy tail feathers too , which I hear is a mite sign ... is there any thing I can do to make sure the mites are gone? do I need to do them with Diatom everyday ?! They dont seem to have any respiratory issues that I can hear . Is there anything else the headshaking could be symptomatic of ?! CC
 
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