can i add that there is cows meat in chicken feed i didnt know until i watched that progamme dirty jobs { on quest channel } and the guy was a at slaughter house and the leftovers which are not fit for humans was processed in dog/cat/and all chicken feed .
Feeding
- Thread starter ajmellu7
- Start date
I entirely agree with Chuck, and I think that on this forum we should avoid posting anything which might suggest that we approve of any contravention of basically sensible and necessary regulations. If chickens need a protein boost for some reason (eg builiding up an underweight, sick bird) you can give other sources of protein, eg sunflower seeds or dried mealworms, kept elsewhere than in the kitchen. All other chickens fed on good-quality pellets or on grain mixtures will get sufficient protein in their rations, and giving them meat will unbalance their diet, as well as the other risks Chuck mentions. Some aspects of the regulations do sound a bit weird in a domestic context, eg not giving anything which has even passed through a kitchen, meat or otherwise, raw or cooked, but here one just has to be sensible and aware of possible hygiene problems, as we would when preparing food for ourselves.
Superkitty
New member
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2011
- Messages
- 4
- Reaction score
- 0
I agree! Feeding mealworms and sunflower seeds is one thing (and I do it) but cooked meat etc just doesn't seem right. Am now hoping that my layers pellets don't have meat in...but hopefully not as they're the organic marriages ones 
I just don't believe that good-quality layers pellets from any of the major brands contain animal derivatives. It just wouldn't be worth it for the companies concerned, in terms of possible withdrawal of stocks, bad publicity, lawsuits and prosecutions. I'm very happy with the Garvo my chickens and quail get, but would be confident to use other top quaility brands as well. But don't let's get started on what goes into cheap dog food......
pennyblack chooks
New member
Well to achieve the same outcomes I could I suppose try getting live meal worms and chuck the measure of flubenvet onto them mix it up and distribute that to the hens Worming time Is the only time they get this sort of thing. I rely on sunflower seeds , their natural foraging in our hedges,lawn and what I find in the veg patch plus their organic (100%) allan and page pellets for other sources of protein the rest of the year.
whilst I understand the Defra guidelines ref herbivores like pigs and cows and sheep etc chickens DO forage for protein in animal protein form such as grubs, worms, flies, moths Mine do all day. some as shown on this forum will eat frogs and mine have eaten a mouse before now....whilst I realise they are not hunting cows or sheep, animal protein IS animal protein !! so a few days of very small amount (less that a third of a teaspoon) of raw mince three times a year is not to my mind a full blown dietary supplement but simply a means to an end.
Nevertheless I will investigate how I could use mealworms instead!
whilst I understand the Defra guidelines ref herbivores like pigs and cows and sheep etc chickens DO forage for protein in animal protein form such as grubs, worms, flies, moths Mine do all day. some as shown on this forum will eat frogs and mine have eaten a mouse before now....whilst I realise they are not hunting cows or sheep, animal protein IS animal protein !! so a few days of very small amount (less that a third of a teaspoon) of raw mince three times a year is not to my mind a full blown dietary supplement but simply a means to an end.
Nevertheless I will investigate how I could use mealworms instead!
Bertie & The Chooks
New member
pennyblack chooks said:Chuck said:
legally, they can not have any scraps, period. only feed and fresh veggies/fruit.
nearly all animal feeds contain bone and meat meal of some kind i use farmgate pellets and they have that in it ... http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/94/feeding-chickens-for-best-health-and-performance. you can check this if you want to i was very shocked when i saw the progamme and even went out and double checked the feed listings on my feed bag for it .
Bertie & The Chooks
New member
foxy said:I don't feed mine any meat..left over or otherwise. They do though get left overs veggies, like roast potatoes for example.
Yes while I agree poultry are omnivores, however I am yet to see a chicken hunt and kill a cow!
A chicken wouldn't hunt and kill a cow because they are not hunters, they are scavengers. So if another animal killed a cow or if a cow died of natural causes and chickens were about, they would feed on the dead carcass.
Bertie & The Chooks
New member
Marigold said:
I actually get live bugs for mine if they are poorly. you can get them from most pet shops or order them online, sometimes i accidentally drop and egg when i collect them too. 0
10i doubled check my farm gate pellets and they dont have any bone meal in but they used to as i checked the bag after i saw the progamme but they very well could of stopped using it any time since then.i would hate to know how many frogs and toads my girls have killed over the past 3 or 4 yrs probably tons .
pennyblack chooks
New member
Spoke to a farmer today and had a look through defra stuff myself .....
The rules are very clear about meat producing animals and the restrictions on cooked food
Farmer told me that FMD and BSE brought rules regarding the way feed is prepared. In former swill was being fed made of waste food from schools etc and was fed to breeding sows but not the piglets which were fed meal as they were to be eaten. Sows became pies etc at the end of their breeding lives and this is where the cross contamination issues began. The problems arose when the swill was not heated to sufficient temp for right length of time....and so a perfectly efficient way of avoiding sending all this food to landfill ended because heating and in effect rendering the food waste completely safe was deemed too costly by those who had the responsibility to feed these pigs but who clearly were not doing it in ways that ensured proper practice.
With BSE the farmers were blamed for using the feed with meat in it for thier cows and of course the cows were producing beef calves but the feed companies were not heating the meat meal sufficiently to clean it effectively and make it safe for consumption as they were trying to reduce production costs and increase profits.
I couldn't find anything in defra guidelines specifying anything about egg laying hens feed only lots of info about meat birds and not much there to help clarify even that regarding feed stuff.
The issues are with as farmer told me meat food chain in cloven hooved animals, not egg laying chickens.
The rules are very clear about meat producing animals and the restrictions on cooked food
Farmer told me that FMD and BSE brought rules regarding the way feed is prepared. In former swill was being fed made of waste food from schools etc and was fed to breeding sows but not the piglets which were fed meal as they were to be eaten. Sows became pies etc at the end of their breeding lives and this is where the cross contamination issues began. The problems arose when the swill was not heated to sufficient temp for right length of time....and so a perfectly efficient way of avoiding sending all this food to landfill ended because heating and in effect rendering the food waste completely safe was deemed too costly by those who had the responsibility to feed these pigs but who clearly were not doing it in ways that ensured proper practice.
With BSE the farmers were blamed for using the feed with meat in it for thier cows and of course the cows were producing beef calves but the feed companies were not heating the meat meal sufficiently to clean it effectively and make it safe for consumption as they were trying to reduce production costs and increase profits.
I couldn't find anything in defra guidelines specifying anything about egg laying hens feed only lots of info about meat birds and not much there to help clarify even that regarding feed stuff.
The issues are with as farmer told me meat food chain in cloven hooved animals, not egg laying chickens.
karminski said:
It can be used for dog and cat food but it is illegal to add it to chicken feed and the feed of any ruminants.
I'd be interested to know if anyone has ever read that raw or cooked meat should be fed to poultry in a poultry book or magazine.
pennyblack chooks
New member
As well as checking the Flubenvet issue (another thread) I did also ask my vet about using raw mince as a worming medium.
Yes it is illegal to feed raw mince. This I got from my vet. I did try to ask Defra but they were not especially interested in a backyard chicken issue and put me through to the Animal Health and Welfare Dept who were not terribly interested either - only in diseases. Chickens do eat animal protein and have eaten all kinds of things we get quite sqeamish about. Mine as I say have attacked and eaten a mouse. They attacked a robin once and drew blood but I managed to get him/her out of the situation before he became a snack. And of course the moths, worms, flies and grubs mine find all over the garden are animal protien. The issue, however, is not with their diet or digestion but with the source of the animal protein - IF the beef, for instance, was carrying a prion and the chicken that ate the beef is eaten then there could be infection issues in the chicken meat. And of course if an egg is eaten from the chicken there could be the same risk as this is still an animal by-product. Of course the meat would need to be carrying this infectious agent for this to happen. While the risk is very very small it is still, nevertheless, a risk.
Luckily for me I have only used it this time because my newbies didn't have the same enthusiasm for grapes/tomatoes that my older chooks have, and that is what I have usually successfully used. Last time I did them I used Ivermectin (as I had spotted an early scaley leg problem and although it affected some, I did all of them as a precautionary measure and cosequently the worming was covered too). I was really excited to find mince was so popular as it ticked all the boxes for their worming needs and I was, until all of this debate, planning to use it each time. I thought I'd cracked it! Have discussed another 'medium' option with my vet and will be experimenting to see their enthusiasm before I need to worm again. To work well as a medium it needs to be something that they will 'kill for' so the take up is quick and effective.
Anyway, thought it best to clear that one up.99
On a similar vein it is also illegal to feed kitchen scraps to chickens, even vegetables .....04
Yes it is illegal to feed raw mince. This I got from my vet. I did try to ask Defra but they were not especially interested in a backyard chicken issue and put me through to the Animal Health and Welfare Dept who were not terribly interested either - only in diseases. Chickens do eat animal protein and have eaten all kinds of things we get quite sqeamish about. Mine as I say have attacked and eaten a mouse. They attacked a robin once and drew blood but I managed to get him/her out of the situation before he became a snack. And of course the moths, worms, flies and grubs mine find all over the garden are animal protien. The issue, however, is not with their diet or digestion but with the source of the animal protein - IF the beef, for instance, was carrying a prion and the chicken that ate the beef is eaten then there could be infection issues in the chicken meat. And of course if an egg is eaten from the chicken there could be the same risk as this is still an animal by-product. Of course the meat would need to be carrying this infectious agent for this to happen. While the risk is very very small it is still, nevertheless, a risk.
Luckily for me I have only used it this time because my newbies didn't have the same enthusiasm for grapes/tomatoes that my older chooks have, and that is what I have usually successfully used. Last time I did them I used Ivermectin (as I had spotted an early scaley leg problem and although it affected some, I did all of them as a precautionary measure and cosequently the worming was covered too). I was really excited to find mince was so popular as it ticked all the boxes for their worming needs and I was, until all of this debate, planning to use it each time. I thought I'd cracked it! Have discussed another 'medium' option with my vet and will be experimenting to see their enthusiasm before I need to worm again. To work well as a medium it needs to be something that they will 'kill for' so the take up is quick and effective.
Anyway, thought it best to clear that one up.
99On a similar vein it is also illegal to feed kitchen scraps to chickens, even vegetables .....
04i will still feed my girls kitchen scraps wether its legal or illegal like most people who have done it for many many years i know where most of mine have come from and thats our allotments grown in my horses muck which i know is very good :lol: :lol: if this sort of thing was talked about 50 -60 yrs ago or maybe even less we would be told to stop being so stupid .
pennyblack chooks
New member
I know Karminski :roll:
Mine will continue to have stuff from my veg patch grown in our lovely home made compost containing - chicken poo, straw, horse manure (from friends), garden waste and uncooked veg waste - and if it has gone from veg patch to kitchen (to be sorted into what we eat and what the chickens can have and what will go into compost) and so back out to the garden I'll have to live with it as you do.
Common sense and many other elements of good practice went out the window when intensive farming methods, imposed by successive governments, took a hold after the Second World War and we are living in the aftermath of some of the worst effects of that.
Mine will continue to have stuff from my veg patch grown in our lovely home made compost containing - chicken poo, straw, horse manure (from friends), garden waste and uncooked veg waste - and if it has gone from veg patch to kitchen (to be sorted into what we eat and what the chickens can have and what will go into compost) and so back out to the garden I'll have to live with it as you do.
Common sense and many other elements of good practice went out the window when intensive farming methods, imposed by successive governments, took a hold after the Second World War and we are living in the aftermath of some of the worst effects of that.
chrismahon
Well-known member
I agree with it as well Karminski. At one time the whole point of having chickens was because they could produce eggs from food scraps and scratching about in the yard. The problems arose feeding contaminated foodstuffs by the intensive brigade.
My friend hates chickens. It comes about because his father made him look after neighbours chickens when they were away. He had that chore to do before he went to school and immediately he came back -it was a 40 minute bus ride to school. Interestingly they were all bantams, he thinks White Leghorns. They do lay extremely well (the Brown ones anyway) for little feed intake and need little space so they have got to have been the best backyard poultry you could get.
My friend hates chickens. It comes about because his father made him look after neighbours chickens when they were away. He had that chore to do before he went to school and immediately he came back -it was a 40 minute bus ride to school. Interestingly they were all bantams, he thinks White Leghorns. They do lay extremely well (the Brown ones anyway) for little feed intake and need little space so they have got to have been the best backyard poultry you could get.
Stapfam
New member
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2011
- Messages
- 80
- Reaction score
- 0
Only two of us in the household and all kitchen scraps go to the chickens. There is not much there on any day and potato peelings are cooked before being given to them. The only thing they don't like is carrot. They are not garden run and stay in the run but They do get plenty of green stuff. Whenever I mow the lawn they get a hopper of the cuttings and all weeds go in the run aswell.
And If you want to see a load of girls sqabbling- put in a bunch of grapes. They have been getting our thinnings from July and just got to the end of the ripe ones that we cannot eat from the vine in the greenhouse. And those cabbages that are not going to make it are hung up in the run----just a bit too high to peck at unless they jump.
And If you want to see a load of girls sqabbling- put in a bunch of grapes. They have been getting our thinnings from July and just got to the end of the ripe ones that we cannot eat from the vine in the greenhouse. And those cabbages that are not going to make it are hung up in the run----just a bit too high to peck at unless they jump.
pennyblack chooks
New member
I don't know if there might be contaminants from your mower's engine/blade in the grass cuttings Stapfam?? Perhaps someone who knows about lawnmower engines will be able to comment on that?
As for the jumping - mine ate all our bramley apples last year by leaping in the air and knocking each one off its stem at just the right moment (how did they know it was exactly the right time for each one19 19 ) That tree we planted is the only one that is dwarf (it wasn't meant to be!) so the apples were at just the right height for them to reach by an energetic leap. It made me laugh so much watching them do it I almost didn't mind that none of the apples ended up in a crumble for us.
I watch them doing this in the hedge too - catching flies
My black rocks really love grapes but my younger ones (3 different hybrids) just like them.
As for the jumping - mine ate all our bramley apples last year by leaping in the air and knocking each one off its stem at just the right moment (how did they know it was exactly the right time for each one
19 19 ) That tree we planted is the only one that is dwarf (it wasn't meant to be!) so the apples were at just the right height for them to reach by an energetic leap. It made me laugh so much watching them do it I almost didn't mind that none of the apples ended up in a crumble for us. I watch them doing this in the hedge too - catching flies
My black rocks really love grapes but my younger ones (3 different hybrids) just like them.
50 or 60 years ago BSE in cattle didn't existed. It was the feeding of offal in cattle feed that caused that one. Things change, viruses and bacteria can mutate and become resistant.
Most of what I consider to be bad feeding practice has I think been passed around on Forums. Editors/Publishers of Books and Magazines need to be much more aware of legal positions.
New keepers can pick up bad practices as easily as new ones. I'm sure Forums have helped a huge number of people (including me) and you can get a very quick response so can play a great part in disseminating knowledge.
It was not hat long ago on this Forum that someone said that her vet, who also kept chickens, advised feeding minced beef !!!!!
Most of what I consider to be bad feeding practice has I think been passed around on Forums. Editors/Publishers of Books and Magazines need to be much more aware of legal positions.
New keepers can pick up bad practices as easily as new ones. I'm sure Forums have helped a huge number of people (including me) and you can get a very quick response so can play a great part in disseminating knowledge.
It was not hat long ago on this Forum that someone said that her vet, who also kept chickens, advised feeding minced beef !!!!!
