Egg peritonitis? Antibiotics?

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MillieM

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Hi

I am really hoping someone can give me a bit of advice.

I am new to keeping chickens. Ten days ago I got three hybrid hens around 26wks old. All was going fine until yesterday my dominant girl 'Rhonda' became very subdued, she didn't lay (normally she is like clockwork), her tail dropped and she stopped eating. I lifted her (she didn't even try to move away) and set her in the coop. I checked on her a bit later and she had laid a soft egg (just membrane holding it together). This morning there was a long thickish pink thread in her poo. I noticed since we got her she seems to do lots of normal poos but equally lots of yellowish runny poos. There were a few white patches visible through her brown feathers. I hadn't worried about the runny poo as she seemed some vibrant and healthy and I put it down to moving stress. I haven't chained the diet and used the same feed as the seller (commercial grade pellets). I possibly give them a bit more treats than they were used to bits of dried bread, veg (tomatoes, sugar snap peas, lettuce) but the runny poo was there from day one.

This morning she was up and perky eating well, she went to the nest box at her 'regular' time and made a bit of noise (didn't lay). The other two girls seem fine. I am concerned this might be egg peritonitis but not sure and was wondering if others had experienced something similar? Should I quarantine her?

Thanks in advance for any info... (phoned a few local vets unfortunately not much experience with poultry).unfortunately pics too big to attach - if I can figure out I will add them.
 
Peritonitis gives a swollen belly. She could have worms? When were they wormed with Flubenvet, if at all?
 
Hi Millie and welcome to the forum.
I don't think peritonitis is likely, this mainly only affects older hens who have laid many eggs and have slacker egglaying equipment so that an egg passes down into the abdominal cavity instead of down the oviduct, and then festers there. I think Chris is right to think first of worms. Since you got them, have you wormed them all with Flubenvet, or do you know if the previous owner had done this within the past 4-6 months? Don't rely on any other 'herbal' products, they won't do the job of actually killing worms. All hens get worms and need effective worming every 4-6 months as a heavy worm burden can pull them down and produce similar symptoms to those you describe. It's also possible that she is eggbound, if her tail is down and she's not laying. The egg with no shell is not unusual in a young hen, they sometimes need a few weeks to settle down to lay and abnormal eggs are quite common.
I also think you could look again at their diet. Hens do best on a simple diet of good quality layers pellets, short grass, other greens such as cabbage, mixed chicken grit to dip into when they need it, and plenty of clean water. You can add kitchen scraps of fruit peelings or green vegetables, and they can have very small amounts of mixed corn as a treat to get them to come to you, but never more than a small egg cupful per hen per day as it will make them deposit fat round their ovaries if you overdo it. Never ever give them bread, not only is it poor in nutrients but can block the crop and cause digestive upsets. Never give cooked human food scraps either, as these may be high in fat, sugar and salt. Like us, they live eating what to them is junk food, but it does cause them to put on weight and they fill up on stuff which them displaces their own diet which is balanced for their needs. If they were not used to extras as treats, these may wel be upsetting their systems and producing the diarrhoea. I think you could cut out everything except pellets for a few days and see if it makes any difference. When you worm with Flubenvet they have to eat only treated pellets for 7dqys, to ensure each bird gets enough to be effective, without filling up on anything else, so now would be a good time to do this.
You can buy Flubenvet powder online, and then you just weigh out enough pellets to last them a week (4 kilos for 3hens) and mix in the correct amount of powder (2 scoops from the pack.) and then feed just this for a week in the usual way. See the main Poultrykeeper site, link at bottom of this page, here http://poultrykeeper.com/general-chickens/worming-chickens

Moving home is stressful for hens, as you say, and often they do go down with health problems in the first week or so, so I should contact the breeder you got them from and let him know what is happening. Most probably she will recover, but if she shows no sign of improvement at least you will have let the breeder know what is happening in case you subsequently want to send her back. You really don't want to start chicken keeping with hens that are not fully fit and healthy, it's just a worry that spoils the pleasure, doesn't it! Do let us know how she gets on.
 
Thank-you very much for this advice - it's soo reassuring that it doesn't sound 'typical' of peritonitis. I have flubenvet and apple cider vinegar on order, I am hoping they will arrive tomorrow. I really hope it sorts her out - she is such a character, there are no obvious worms in the poo but I believe they can be quite small and difficult to see with the naked eye. I only asked the seller about vaccinations, might give him a call - reassuringly his yard was spotless and his hens looked like they were very well looked after. She has been eating and drinking today and is bossing the other two around - so I am hoping the soft egg was maybe not soo much to worry about and the pink stuff in her poo was maybe just some lining shedding?

What was really concerning was; where the other two were a little skittish to begin with, Rhonda seemed 'hardy' and appeared to settle in immediately and was laying like clockwork every day.

I will definitely make sure there are no more bread scraps given! And will limit them to their feed as you suggest.

Thanks again - much appreciated I will indeed keep you posted, it's good to share with others who understand!
 
Just keep a careful eye on her, it sounds as if she may be settling in and feeling better already. Go easy on the cider vinegar, if you use it, only have it at a very low dilution. Opinions on the usefulness of this are mixed, and many people find that the hens don't like the taste and thus drink less, which is harmful especially in hot weather. Personally I find that healthy hens who are properly fed do OK without supplements of any kind. I tried putting two drinkers in, one with ACV and one with plain water - guess which one they wouldn't touch, given the choice? However some people swear by it, so it's just one of those things you have to decide for yourself.
 
By the way, MillieM, the runny yellow droppings that you've noticed are caecal droppings and are completely normal. Have a look at the pinned post of chicken poos - a whole gallery of them, together with useful commentaries as to what's normal & what isn't.

The British Hen Welfare Trust website will also point you in the direction of a lot of helpful information.
 
Thanks guys - there was a biggish wet patch in coop this morning which I suspect was another soft egg that broke. Rhonda definitely seems in better form although I thought I noticed a few small blood streaks in her droppings (not much though). I am definitely keeping an eye on her as my gut tells me something is not quite right - but it's maybe just being new and consulting Dr Google a bit too much. My family are calling me mother hen and the poop inspector!

Duly noted with the ACV - I will hold off on introducing anything else just now to see if we can get things back on an even keel.

Thanks again - I will let you know how we get on...
 
Thanks chrismahon - Relieved I could cost a pic (albeit a bit blurred) just to be reassured I wasn't missing something major!
 
I agree with your sense that she's not quite right, though, Millie. Have you had a chance to ring her breeder and discuss it with him?
At least if you think she has laid another egg, albeit without a shell, she's not eggbound. Let's hope she comes right over the weekend.
 
She has come round well - she appears to be resuming her position as top hen which I am taking as a good sign. I spoke to the breeder who thinks its most likely an upset - possibly from the move or she maybe picked up something around the garden that upset her. He said as others have done that soft eggs in young hens is not really uncommon. His advice was to hold off on any treatment at least for another day or two as as is getting better, he thinks that she 'will come right' on her own. I will continue to keep an eye on her over the weekend and take it from there. If no improvements I will worm all the girls as a precaution - does this seem reasonable?
 
Yes that's fine, I'm glad she's doing well. You need to worm all the girls anyway, so they are all free from worms and can all be wormed again at the same time. Just because the others aren't showing symptoms doesn't mean they haven't got any worms and it's always good to keep well on top of the situation, especially as you have nice clean ground with no buildup of chicken worms in the soil so far. Its good practice to always worm new birds as a matter of course, and this is usually done when they are point of lay at around 16-18 weeks. Yours are 26 weeks so could have been done a couple of months ago actually.
When you mix up the Flubenvet, weigh out 4kilos in a bucket or large container. Put about a kilo of this into another large container and add a little vegetable oil, stir to lightly coat the pellets so the powder will stick to them and not just fall to the bottom. Then add the Flubenvet powder and stir very well. Add the rest of the pellets gradually, stirring thoroughly each time so the dose gets equally distributed. Then fill an empty feeder and store the rest of the mix for later in the week.
 
The Flubenvet 1% powder mixes 2Kg feed to one 6g scoop I think Marigold. That's enough for two laying hens for 7 days Millie. An alternative is the Marriages premix of layers pellets with the Flubenvet already added. Our hens loved the stuff. A 10Kg bag will treat 10 chickens but has only got a 3 month shelf life, so you will be wasting a lot unfortunately. It does avoid all the messing about mixing the powder in though.
 
Hi Guys - Rhonda is doing ok 'ish' she has not started laying again yet - I still feel that she is not quite right. The other two girls are settling in well - laying (small) eggs every 2nd day. There are definitely no obvious worms in the poo. Rhonda is eating and drinking but still has large soft poops compared to the other two girls (less runny that previously). The flubenvet arrived today as well as the ACV.

Am I a right - 3kg layers to a 9g scoop for 3hens (7days). Also is it ok to give ACV at the same time? Don't want to overload their systems with too much at once.

Thanks again for the help I'd have been lost without the help!
 
The instructions say one level scoop (provided in the pack) to two kilos of pellets. I've always found they eat more than a kilo each when not fed anything else, so either mix 4 kilos and 2 scoops to start with, or be prepared to mix more if needed. If there's a bit left in the bottom of the feeder I just top up with ordinary pellets and let them finish it up.
I would hold off on the ACV -.as you say, one lot of medication at a time is enough for them, and also you can evaluate the effect more accurately if only giving one type. Personally I never use ACV as it seems to reduce the amount they drink, which is most undesirable. Certainly they will be no worse off without it for a week or two, during which time you can see if the wormer perks her up a bit. The Flubenvet may sort out the runny poo, though it may take a while to do this, if she does have quite a few worms it may even get worse before it gets better,
Their eggs will get bigger as they mature. Coming into lay is like hen puberty, it often takes a while for everything to settle down and become regular as they finish growing up into 'big girls.' Pullets such as yours, moved to a new home at 26 weeks, who have already started to lay, often take a break as they deal with the stress of the move. That's why next time you might try to get them at point of lay (POL) ie about 16-18 weeks. POL doesn't mean they're going to lay any minute, but that they are in the later stages of maturation leading to lay at between 20-28 weeks, according to their breed and the time of year. As the days get shorter, pullets who are POL later than October often wait until the next Soring to lay when the days lengthen. 16-18 week old pullets then have a few weeks to settle in and grow on a bit before the stress of laying, and you can worm them at that stage to help prepare them for the work ahead of them! So when your girl is fit and healthy again, she will return to lay, I'm sure. Laying takes a lot out of a hen, she needs some spare resources to do it, and it doesn't happen when she's under the weather, or when moulting and growing new feathers.
 
Thanks Marigold - hopefully the flubenvet will set her right, I will start treatment tomorrow. Hopefully I'm just over analysing things... She is eating and drinking well and is lively enough but just not 100%. As you say, given their stage of maturation and the stress of the move - it might just take a little while to settle down. I will let you know how we get on..
 
Hi Guys,

I hope these attachments work... This morning I found another soft egg in the nest box, the 'shell' was in the nest box and a watery mess was under Rhondas perching spot. Rhonda is really unwell again this morning and I think she looks bloated/puffed up - I don't feel heat or swelling around her tummy but I am inexperienced and not sure I would be able to detect a problem. Her vent is messy - I am wondering is this 'normal' when hens lay soft eggs? Do they become lethargic and generally unwell for a short time and then come around again? (This seems to be the pattern we have).

If not, I am wondering again about my original thoughts re peritonitis??

SoftEgg.png
RhondaPic.png

Thanks for any advice....
 
She does look a bit puffed up in that photo but probably that's more because she's holding her feathers puffed out rather than visible abdominal swelling. At least she is actually delivering eggs, albeit softies. In egg peritonitis the half formed egg slips down into the hens gut on its way down the oviduct (hens are rather badly designed in that respect) and once in the gut there's no way out for it. So it gradually leads to septicaemia.
If it does turn out to be peritonitis, it is possible that she was exposed to Infectious Bronchitis virus when she was a chick, and survived this, but a side effect of this caused her these problems. Or maybe she has some other kind of gut upset. Its very hard to tell with hens, even for an experienced person or a vet, as they do try to cover up when they're ill in case the others pick on them. If it was an I.B. Infection it may be a problem which can recur, even if she pulls through this time, and she may be a carrier of the infection. See this article from Poultrykeeper http://poultrykeeper.com/reproductive-system-problems/egg-peritonitis

If you haven't got an experienced avian vet, the best thing you can do is watchful waiting, keep her comfortable, check she's drinking and eating, and start the Flubenvet as soon as you can. If you can separate her within sight of the others, you'll be able to tell how much of the treated pellets she's eating. If it's not as much as the other two, there are ways of getting it down her in sufficient amounts to do the job. Is her comb still nice and red? At least she's on her feet in that picture. I hope she will just get better in the next day or two - put it down to PMT maybe!
 
I spoke to a few vets last week, none of whom were particularly knowledgeable. Her comb is nice and red and she is perking up again, eating well, drinking and foraging around the garden. It seems to me its the passing of the egg that is the problem as she appears suddenly unwell for an hour or two then passes the (soft) egg, she remains a bit off for an hour or two but then goes back to being perky. Flubenvet started... fingers crossed.
 
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