Cockerel "snicking" in breath

[darkbrowneggs]

Hi All - I have recently acquired a young cockerel from a top breeder, as I want to introduce a little new blood to my otherwise closed flock.

It had a longish journey in a travelling box in a car boot (not mine I hasten to add) and when it was first shown to me the first thing I noticed was there was some mucus round the nostrils. I handled it a little (its very pecky - not something I generally tolerate in my breeding stock so thinking it was distressed by the journey I put it in an isolation cage. It ate fine, took loads of grit, which apparently it was never given, and spent a lot of time drinking and flicking the water about. That night its nostrils were clear, and I wondered if it had only had access to drip water nozzles which had given it a "dirty" nose

Next day I got it out to handle it to try and reduce its aggression at being handled, and after a few minutes of trying to peck my hands whenever they came near, I noticed it was getting some clear mucus round its nostrils again, and it might have been clear and bubbly, but that might be my memory playing tricks after much research on the internet.

I have had it now about three weeks, and it is marginally calmer when handled, but I notice when I return it to the pen it has a habit of what I can only describe as snicking, almost a catch in its nose/throat. Left to its own devices this doesn't happen, though I was handling a pullet within eyesight of his pen and I noticed it did it a few times again.

I assume this is all brought on by stress, but it is something I have never experienced in any of my flock. I am particularly worried that this might be Mycoplasma, as I understand that this can be transmitted via eggs.

The bird looks healthy in every general way, though it feels surprisingly light to me, but I am only used to my own birds which I have developed into a very strong heavy strain

What are everyone's thoughts on this, and am I being unnecessarily cautious. As far as I understand it the bird is from a top class and highly reputed breeder. I would really welcome everyones input on this one

All the best
Sue
Dark Brown Eggs

 

[Tim]

Hi Sue,

Firstly, I think you are doing the right thing keeping him separate from your birds. Well done.

Secondly, I would check he is wormed - Gapeworm can be confused with respiritory problems but is usually picked up from wild pheasants crossing the same ground but my first check is always worming as it's so easy to do and can often clear problems before you start to investigate further.

To be honest, Mycoplasma Gallisepticum is in many backyard flocks in the UK and doesn't trouble you until a bird becomes run down / stressed etc. You can get a test done by your vet but on the bright side, it could be this is a simple cold though brought on by the move.

It's worth remembering a flock can be carrying Myco and new, healthy stock can be introduced and come down with it within a week or so, caught from the flock that appear to be healthy.

Whilst antibiotics such as Tylan or Baytril can treat Myco, ultimately the best way IMO is prevention rather than cure - give birds free range, fresh grass, the right diet and fresh drinking water. Garlic can help build the immune system but of course a sick bird needs to be

Finally, I would ask whether you -really- need to introduce new blood. It can ruin a line of birds so easily and providing you don't breed brother to sister you should be able to keep a line going for quite a number of years until your hatchability is affected and genetic problems start to appear. The other thing to remember for Marans is that as the eggs get darker, the hatch suffers which mustn't be confused with hatchability of the line. If there are specific traits you need in your line that you don't have in any of your birds then it's possible to introduce them - but it does take a long time to get rid of all the other unwanted things that appear..

If it were me, I would keep him separate, keep an eye on him and if he gets any worse, take him to your vet. My guess is they will prescribe Tylan or Baytril if they suspect Myco. These are both available online for a very reasonable price (I think Tylan is £17) but you do need a prescription from your vet. One vet I visited some years back quoted me £53 for a bottle of Tylan which is why I mention it. You can just get the prescription and buy elsewhere if their price is too high.There's more information on these antibiotics in our Poultry Medication section.

Let us know how you get on...
Hope this helps 05

 

[darkbrowneggs]

Many thanks Tim for the very comprehensive reply.

My own flock is positively glowing with health and strength, if, however I did choose to introduce this blood to my line, and "sacrificed" a couple or three hens to breed with him in an isolated pen - I have one over the far side of the garden which I sometimes use for pheasants - am I right in thinking if it is myco that this can go on down through the eggs?

Also you mention that happy healthy stock is often the best way forward. If this bird is given a stress free life and the best of everything and to all intents and purposes is fine, will it still be a potential weakening influence in my own line.

I have been told that he is from a good prizewinning egg laying strain ie shape texture and I am told colour, but unfortunately I haven't been shown any of the eggs, which I must admit does slightly worry me. Also although he is still young he doesn't have the chunky "maran-ness" of my own birds, though for all I know he may be the approved ideal - I have never shown or even been to a poultry show, and though I generally have a quick look at the Marans in the local Three Counties Show, I have never seen anything there that really "does it" for me.

I will try a get a photo of him and post it. I don't want to bother with him unless it is going to be a real improvement to my stock

All the best, and thanks again Tim

Sue
Dark Brown Eggs

 

[foxy]

Hi DBE, couple of things that would trouble me, whilst I understand that many backyard flocks carry myco, I would not accept a bird that 1. Felt too light (campared to your own healthy birds of the same breed) 2. Was exhibiting symptoms of illness on receipt of the bird, and, over a prolonged time in isolation.
Being controversial here- they maybe top flight breeders, however, it really is worth visiting the premises where they are bred and having a look for yourself, as what you consider good standards may not be shared by others. Just my opinion though. I rarely take on new birds but have done it twice recently, the first time I went down an collected a new lad for an experiment. The husbandry was second to none, a sheer pleasure wandering around and admiring all the wonderful and very healthy birds. Second time just by a quick handle of the birds I knew they had been kept very well, and were exceptionally tame and friendly!
What I am trying to say is trust your instincts here, any shadow of doubt is there for a reason.

 

[darkbrowneggs]

Hi Sue,

Firstly, I think you are doing the right thing keeping him separate from your birds. Well done.

Secondly, I would check he is wormed - Gapeworm can be confused with respiratory problems but is usually picked up from wild pheasants crossing the same ground but my first check is always worming as it's so easy to do and can often clear problems before you start to investigate further.

To be honest, Mycoplasma Gallisepticum is in many backyard flocks in the UK and doesn't trouble you until a bird becomes run down / stressed etc. You can get a test done by your vet but on the bright side, it could be this is a simple cold though brought on by the move.

It's worth remembering a flock can be carrying Myco and new, healthy stock can be introduced and come down with it within a week or so, caught from the flock that appear to be healthy.

Whilst antibiotics such as Tylan or Baytril can treat Myco, ultimately the best way IMO is prevention rather than cure - give birds free range, fresh grass, the right diet and fresh drinking water. Garlic can help build the immune system but of course a sick bird needs to be

Finally, I would ask whether you -really- need to introduce new blood. It can ruin a line of birds so easily and providing you don't breed brother to sister you should be able to keep a line going for quite a number of years until your hatchability is affected and genetic problems start to appear. The other thing to remember for Marans is that as the eggs get darker, the hatch suffers which mustn't be confused with hatchability of the line. If there are specific traits you need in your line that you don't have in any of your birds then it's possible to introduce them - but it does take a long time to get rid of all the other unwanted things that appear..

If it were me, I would keep him separate, keep an eye on him and if he gets any worse, take him to your vet. My guess is they will prescribe Tylan or Baytril if they suspect Myco. These are both available online for a very reasonable price (I think Tylan is £17) but you do need a prescription from your vet. One vet I visited some years back quoted me £53 for a bottle of Tylan which is why I mention it. You can just get the prescription and buy elsewhere if their price is too high.There's more information on these antibiotics in our Poultry Medication section.

Let us know how you get on...
Hope this helps 05

Hi again Tim
I think you may very well hit the nail on the head. I have never seen or had gapeworm in any of my birds so had no idea what to look for. There are no proper photos on the web, but I have looked at the info, and I am pretty sure this bird has got it.

Because I was handling him quite a lot when I put him back he was snicking, coughing and shaking his head, he also sounded quite gurgley in the throat, but take a look at my photos and please let me know if your idea is correct. It certainly looks like what is described on the various sites.



I am not sure how to post pictures, so I hope this has worked. If not this is a link

By the way what would you recommend as treatment. The only site recommendations I have found is a few drops of Ivermectin in the throat. Can I use the normal Sheep/cattle ones

thanks for any and all help
Sue
Dark Brown Eggs

 

[foxy]

Hi I am not sure that is gapeworm, looks more like a mucous plug, which is more of a symptom of upper respiratory infection. Here is a photo of gapeworm, really sorry if you haven't had your supper yet!
Recommended treatment would be Flubenvet.

 

[Tim]

Hi Sue,

The most common signs of gapeworm are ‘snicking' and neck stretching 'gaping' / gasping which is associated with difficulty breathing due to the worms living in the windpipe but it would be wrong for me to diagnose a bird in this way over the web... please keep in mind we could be miles off here especially since you've mentioned mucus etc... it could be more of a respiritory problem as foxy says-

Start here - Poultry Diseases and Disorders and then have a look at the first tab - Respiritory. Gape Worm is on one of the tabs and there are photos. I don't think you can tell by looking in the mouth as it's the trachea or windpipe where they lodge themselves.

I'm sorry but I don't know enough about what to look for from the photo you've posted.

From here, it links to articles on the site concerning gapeworm, including a link to the Flubenvet page which is the licensed product to treat Gape Worm.

I believe you should see a difference within a few days but treat him for 7 days as per the pack instructions. It would at least rule out Gapeworm and it's always a good idea to worm new stock anyway so you know where you are.

Hope this helps.

Tim

 

[darkbrowneggs]

Just an update - I am still not happy with this brought in bird. He has been kept isolated from the flock so any problems he might be carrying have not been a problem so far, and I intend to keep it that way, and I have decided to cull him.

OK - I feel guilty about killing anything, even when it is to be eaten, but on the grounds that a healthy flock is paramount in my view, there is very little point in taking chances. If I thought the bird was absolutely stunning quality I might be tempted, at least in keeping him in an area well away from the main flock - but I prefer the look of my own birds, and also I have been shown no evidence of the quality of egg colour it could produce.

It is supposed to come from a productive strain - but then my own best bird laid consistently 6 or more eggs per week thoughout the season, and has not long gone into moult, plus one of this years lovely Marans pullets has started laying and laying well at just coming up 19 weeks - so - what exactly am I going to achieve?

I won't complain or return the bird, as I think this just causes more problems, but I shall take it as a lesson well learned, and take everything on board for the future.

all the best and thanks for the input

Sue
Dark Brown Eggs

 

[Tim]

It sounds like a very wise choice. It's a real shame he has to be culled - but - better that than to introduce disease and risk the whole flock.

Out of interest, has he got any better health wise?

 

[darkbrowneggs]

He always looked (notice past tense) a healthy bird, just thinner and lighter than I would have expected. He drank far more water than nomal, and was always vocacious for his food when it was put in, but never seemed to have a nice full crop.

As I said when he was taken from the travelling box he had dried mucous round his nostrils, and for the first few days "snicked" a lot, but after just snicked when under stress, and if under greater stress, as he was on the first few days when handled, he had clear mucous round nostils.

In the time I had him he grew taller and developed his comb and wattles, but if anything became thinner in the breast. From another thread on this forum and much internet research I think it may have been Trichomoniasis, which being basically a strong healthy young bird he was fighting off by localizing it in the throat area. My reading tells me that recovered birds can still be carriers.

I did not take him to the vets because (a) in the 40 years since I first visited the vets with an animal I cannot recall an accurate diagnosis of anything (sorry to be a bit cynical but that has been my experience :? ) and (b) I did not really wish to go down the path of treating for illnesses, as I would rather try and maintain a healthy flock with a strong natural immune system, and in those circumstances, unfortunately culling seemed to be the logical step.

It is not, as you can all see, something I have done lightly, but now I am glad the situation is resolved.

All the best - rather glumly
Sue
Dark Brown Eggs