Bryonia alba

Tweetypie

Tweetypie

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Hi all

After last month's fracas with Barbie being poorly, yet looking OK (red comb/bright eyes) and giving them all wormers, lice treatment and the coop etc completely deep cleaned, 'diatommed' and red mite sprayed, Sindy has now become ill.

Yesterday I noticed she was keeping herself away from the others, not eating. Today the same, but her comb has slightly fallen to one side, when normally it is upright, but it is still reddish. I offered her cat food, she didn't move. Normally she would go mad for such a treat.

The title I put, bryony alba, might give it away? I had no clue what this weed or plant was. I saw it in my garden, under a hedge which had become sprawling. I enquired on a gardening forum about it, via photo's. It looked like a vine and I was concerned it was knotweed. After reading up about it being poisionous, I made sure I dug it out. The thing is, yesterday morning when I was hosing down the slabs in their run, I noticed the same vine growing through the grass next to the run. I also have a small extension from the run into a small grassed area, where they go when it is dry weather and that's where it is. I now fear that maybe Barbie and Sindy have eaten some of this. What do you all think?

PS Barbie is fully recovered now, but doesn't lay eggs anymore. :|

PPS When I picked up Sindy this morning to offer her food separately, her stomach was grumbling.
 
I don't know much about bryonia. I do know that it's used in homeopathy, for a variety of ailments. My husband used to take it for rheumatoid arthritis, along with two other things. One was Rhus tox (poison ivy) and I have a feeling the other was rhodadendron.
 
As you say, bryony is toxic to livestock so needs to be eradicated. A hand spray bottle filled with Round Up is effective because it kills the whole plant including the roots. Also Round Up itself is non toxic within hours of application.
 
Bryony eventually has huge underground tubers like whopping parsnips, and is a plant that digs itself deeper into the ground year by year. Last year I tried to dig one out and gave up when I’d gone down more than half a metre and was having difficulty reaching into the hole. It’s come up again this year! We get a lot of it in our hedges and mainly I just pull it out back down to base. Yes every part is poisonous but I would think the berries were more likely to attract birds, although I do think that well-fed chickens like yours are most unlikely to actually eat any kind or part of any poisonous plant. I do always try to pull it out before it seeds as otherwise you get a forest of it coming up everywhere, but the climbing vines are quite easy to remove.
I feel that it’s possible Sindy’s affliction, whatever it is, is much more likely to be one of the diseases of old age that exbatts are unfortunately prone to suffering.
Perhaps chickens are in more danger from eating foliage treated with Roundup. I know ponies will eat dying nettles that have been sprayed. It must change the taste I suppose.
 
Hi all

This briony stuff only appeared yesterday, so never seen it growing near the run, just that other strand of it further away in the hedging in the garden. I am just trying to rule out things, but as you say Marigold, it might be the fact they are ex batts and prone to problems. I would never use anything with chemicals to kill weeds.Tomorrow promises a sunny day, so I will be digging it out.
Sindy is worse than Barbie was. She has not eaten and although I am not watching her 24/7, I have not seen her drink, either. Her chest feels like a small ballon of water??? Her comb has fallen to one side completely now, but still reddish. She has poop on her bum feathers. At 7pm I picked her up and put her in the nestbox for comfort. I knew she was poorly as she didn't come back out. Poor girl.
Isn't it just awful when you don't know what to do for the best....vets are out of the question, 1 weeks waiting. I would have her put to sleep if I thought she was suffering. I can't do that myself :-(
 
It sounds to me like she has either sour crop or impacted crop, or possibly ascites (I never know quite what this last one is, beyond presenting as watery, perhaps a bit lower down than the crop?) Anyway, sour crop is often treatable, as is impacted crop to a certain extent, not sure about ascites. I suggest you have a google, as I can't remember now which rules are for which ailment. As I understand it bryony is poisonous, but I would have thought chooks would avoid it, they do have an inbuilt intuition which serves them well about poisonous plants most of the time. I think it is more likely Sindy is suffering from something else rather than poisoning.
 
It sounds like there is something going on and when I read about flopping combs... along with the behaviour... You need to rule things out. If its this weed then somehow exclude it even if that means keeping them in chicken hospital for a day and seeing if things change. Generally, I dont think they will poison themselves. A friend gave us some foxglove seeds at a funeral - a memorial to the person and a loved plant in the garden. I was very dubious about growing them and it didn't help that some young leaves were defiantly tasted by my crew. But as the leaves matured, and presumably got stronger with the toxin, none have shown any sign of pecking. I'm guessing! If one is ill try moving her out of the normal situation for a while and see if things change for the better. If they dont then you are dealing with a disease.
 
Our hens have never shown any interest in the foxgloves in the garden, luckily we don't have briony so can't comment on that. They root about in the ivy but leaves the leaves and berries alone
 
MrsBiscuit said:
It sounds to me like she has either sour crop or impacted crop, or possibly ascites (I never know quite what this last one is, beyond presenting as watery, perhaps a bit lower down than the crop?) Anyway, sour crop is often treatable, as is impacted crop to a certain extent, not sure about ascites. I suggest you have a google, as I can't remember now which rules are for which ailment. As I understand it bryony is poisonous, but I would have thought chooks would avoid it, they do have an inbuilt intuition which serves them well about poisonous plants most of the time. I think it is more likely Sindy is suffering from something else rather than poisoning.
Click to expand...

Update again
I am now unsure about the bryony...Mrs Biscuit I think you are right.
Sindy was sat alone again this morning, so I popped out and checked her crop. It was a bit like a balloon with water. I heard gurgling sounds aswell. I googled youtube for help and found a funny yet useful video of a guy helping to rid his hen of sourcrop, by massaging her crop and tipping her forward. After much deliberation, armed with throwaway gloves and towel, I scooped up Sindy and decided to give it a go. I sat her on my knee and massaged her crop, letting her lean slightly forward and instantly heard the noises, followed by fluid coming from her beak, so I tilted her further still, so that it could all spill out. Yuk. To be honest, it was nothing like the stuff that came from that guys hen on the video, but it seemed to help the gurgling stop. After 10 mins or so, I put her in the run, where she drank quite a bit (hasn't eaten for 2 days) and the took herself off into the nestbox to relax.
I repeated the same thing at 8pm tonight before she settled for the night.

I'm not sure how she has sourcrop, if that is what it is. She gets her layers pellets, grit and shell, fresh water every day, coop cleaned every day, slabs washed down every day. I can only put it down to the pop hole the OH created so they have access to a small grassed area 6 x 4 feet. Treats tend to be 4 chopped cherry tomatoes or leafy green cabbage to share or third of a whole cucumber, which is about three times a week. I also gave them half a tin of fish cat food to share per day after Barbie was poorly, as she had a bald chest and thought the extra protein may help.

Anyway, I am rambling as usual, but can also add that only Miss Muffet is laying eggs. Mabel has only laid 4 eggs in 3 weeks. Another odd case for Clouseau :-)19 :ugeek:
 
Hurrah! You did well, the tipping up thing does work, although its a bit daunting the first time and not much fun with an enormous orpington I can tell you! The fluid usually smells pretty disgusting, sort of clearish/yellowish. Its a yeast infection, I think it can be caused by slightly spoiled food (pellets), despite our best efforts. I wouldn't be surprised if she gets it again, hopefully she won't, or not for a long time, but I did have a few hens who seemed more prone to it, (like once or twice a year) strangely enough they weren't related but they were all the same colour!

I would perhaps stick to pellets for a few days more than you might usually, just to try to be on the safe side, assuming she is eating OK, to try to help her digestive system settle down.
 
Well its been a week, Sindy has been more or less OK, til this afternoon. Her comb is still on one side and this evening her crop was like a small watery balloon, so I repeated the tipping up method. After that, I mixed some natural yoghurt ( 1tsp) with oats and gave her that. I read somewhere that the yoghurt aids yeast/fungal problems, if that's what she has? I'm trying everything really. So long as she is Ok in herself, she lives :-)

I buy the small bags of pellets and put out one scoop daily, as I don't like too much lying around incase mice or rats are around at night. It can't be the pellets. I have seen wild birds stealing food since Spring, so the OH has since suspended a different feeder inside the dust bath, making it harder for anything else to get to. The other feeder meant the smaller sparrows could actually swoop into the feeder. Maybe they deposited something which they ate? It's a bit annoying as I also feed the wild birds at the back of my house, clearly they like the choice. Must be like having all the takeaway restaurants in one garden.

I really don't know, but at least by trial and error I might be learning something. :-)19 :)
 
I’d avoid dairy products as these are not natural food for any animal apart from young mammals. Also the bacteria in live yoghurts may upset the balance of healthy bacteria that live in a chickens crop. There are endless suggestions for strange concoctions said to help ailing animals that have not been rigorously tested and probably do more harm than good.
In your situation I would give pellets, mixed grit and water and nothing else. No grass, no green food, no titbits and no mashes. Many keepers, mistakenly, only give limestone grit which allegedly help egg shell formation. Modern pellets contain all the calcium a laying bird needs. What is essential is hard, insoluble grit to grind the food. This is vital if grain is fed but probably assists the general healthy functioning of the birds gut system. And stick to this for a month to allow for the full restoration of health.
Anyway as the saying goes ‘that’s what I’d do’. Good luck.
 
Thanks, Hen Gen. It does get rather confusing with all the different advice on other forums and websites. I actually looked inside her beak a couple of days ago, but could not see anything unusual.
I have just left her for the past week with her normal layers feed (Dodson and Horrel), water with a little ACV, eggshell and grit (they always have that in separate pots). She still has a watery crop, but will not expel it now, so I have decided to leave her in peace. Her comb is still folded on one side, but still red. She seems OK in herself. I guess like Marigold has said, she's an old ex batt bird, so life expectancy might not be as long as others.
 
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