Poorly Peckford - Any ideas please?

[Sandrine]

Hi all,
I hope everyone is ok?

Since this morning we have noticed Peckford is not himself. He keeps one eye shut, didn't come out of the coop all singing and dancing as he usually does, in fact came back in a few times. We haven't actually heard him crow all day. He went roaming with the girls in the garden but was quite cautiously walking, looking sad and hunched, not like his usual "standing up tall and proud" self, running around to check on his girls.

I examined him but couldn't find anything out of the ordinary on him. I have cleaned up his eye in case it was something that was bothering him like dust or something. I couldn't see any reason why he was keeping it shut.
His legs look the same colour as usual, his comb is also exactly as it usually is.
Then he pooped whilst I was examining him and that definitely didn't look the same as usual.

I have done a short video to show...
https://youtu.be/pIvc5QEmhhc

Really no idea what the problem may be. So I have quarantined him for now, see if that helps and just in case he has something contagious.

What's changed in Peckford's world?
- I have changed their feed from organic layers pellets to fancy feeds "show quality" layers pellets richer in protein and certain oils I think. This is because the two frizzles are having a hard time with their feathers since the end of winter and since the fox's visit. Plus one of the frizzles has been broody and was insisting on staying that way after hatching. She's come out of that now. So was hoping that this feed would help them get back to there fluffy pretty self. Seems to work so far, though slow process.
- The weather has been good and he's been out roaming the garden more. We're sorting the garden at the moment so there's still plenty for them to forage. I think he's eaten a lot more grass, nettles etc.
- We have 2 new hens introduced on Monday. Peckford has been trying to show them who's boss, well one of them in particular. The others have also bullied them a bit but Peckford was policing that. They seem settled now. The hens are all fine, no problem at all or behaviour out of the ordinary.

If anyone has any idea at all, I would appreciate some advice.

Thank you

 

[MrsBiscuit]

I am sorry that I do not have any ideas, but it strikes me that Peckford's problem is something to do with his eye being shut, and the odd poo is a direct consequence of that, ie it is the symptom rather than the cause. I hope somebody else may be able to help you. His eye does seem swollen, but its nothing I have encountered personally so I don't feel able to comment more.

 

[Sandrine]

Thank you MrsBiscuits.
His eye may look a little swollen but it isn't. When I had him on my lap after examining him, stroking him he got relaxed enough to start dozing off and his good eye closed looked just the same as the one that won't open... I will keep an eye on it however (no pun intended) in case it does get swollen...

 

[Margaid]

This link shows the variety of "normal" chicken poop.

https://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=17568.0

Hopefully one of our more experienced members will be able to help you.

 

[Sandrine]

Thank you Margaid for that. I haven't quite seen one similar... But I am hoping that's good news... One of them was quite close and might suggest worms? Doesn't explain the eye though... I haven't given them apple cider vinegar for a while, so perhaps it's time i did that again. Just in case...

 

[chrismahon]

His poo is typical of a sour digestive system, the slimy consistency with green flecks. Could also be cankers so check his throat and make sure his crop is empty in the morning. Green poo could also indicate an infection (although it should have food in it), so that could be his eye? He needs a vet I think?

Other possibilities are that he isn't eating the new food or the food is past its date and is off or has become damp and mouldy.

Problem is the two things, his eye and his poo, may be unrelated which is so often the case. His closed eye may simply be an injury. He will certainly need probiotics and may need antibiotics or anti-fungal treatment as well?

 

[Sandrine]

Hi Chris
Thank you for that. Just checked on him this morning and I can see quite clearly that his eye is swollen. I don't think I saw the difference between the two yesterday (even it was pointed out) but yes it is. Not overly, just enough to notice a difference.
His crop isn't impacted. He appears to be smacking his chops every now and then. Not sure how else to describe it....
He's still not crowing, but was a little more like himself this morning, standing taller than yesterday, looking a little more alert, and was protesting when I picked him up - just like he would usually eventhough he's totally fine and calm once we hold him properly. It was good to hear his voice lol yesterday he wasn't making any sounds.
He doesn't appear to be eating. He has been drinking though (or at least I think so, although he could have spilled his drink?)
The food is in date and doesn't appear to be off in any way. Besides the others are doing really well on it.

We will keep observing him today and I will get in touch with the vet in the meantime. We'll also keep a closer eye on the hens to make sure that none of them display any signs of a similar nature.

 

[chrismahon]

Hi Sandrine. You didn't mention checking for cankers in his mouth and most importantly down his throat (you will need a torch). That could stop him eating and even talking and may explain the beak movements. Some breeds are prone to them- particularly Buff Orpingtons. We've had fatal cankers with all of them except one- he was an original, not a modern large chested, very fluffy show breed strain.

 

[Sandrine]

I didn't get enough time to do that this morning before I went to work as I was on my own as well... I tried but holding him so he remained calm, and getting his beak open at the same time just wasn't happening and I didn't want to spook his too much so i will have to do this with my daughter when i get back. I did do an external examination and couldn't feel anything that is not supposed to be there... Though I know this is not good enough...
My daughter has just reported to me that he's started eating again a little... Which is an improvement! He did drink his water first thing this morning as well and I'd put some apple cider vinegar and garlic extract in it, to see if it may help.
He's a New Hampshire Red... Is that a breed prone to cankers?

 

[chrismahon]

Yes, it's definitely a job for two Sandrine and be careful when you open his beak so as not to strain the lower. I find wriggling a finger in-between the beak and then holding the top, which is fixed to the skull, is best.

Don't know about New Hampshire Reds unless they are prone to eating disorders (not emptying their crops), which is what triggers crop and throat cankers. The cankers are fungal and treated with Nystan. Confusion for me arises with apparent cankers caused by a parasite called TG (can't spell it out fully- Trico something) which are actually inflammation in the mouth and airways- they look the same but are treated with Flagyl. They however do grow and become fungal infection. We have been plagued by both conditions since we started with chickens. TG spreads in feed and drinking water, so we have had to keep flocks separate.

 

[Sandrine]

Tried to check his throat, but couldn't. His mouth looks ok. But couldn't see much further. My daughter was helping to keep him calm and holding his head, but I couldn't hold his mouth open wide enough for long enough. I am not very good at this to be fair... Probably too soft and worried I might hurt him.
He's eaten a little, a couple times today. He's had a couple drinks, with added apple cider vinegar and garlic extract. He has voiced his grumpiness at us handling him but no cockledoodledoo...
His eye is still the same, shut and swollen a little.
But for the most part of the day he's been roosting. My daughter said she's taken him out of his roosting box a couple times. This is when he had something to eat.
My daughter had a towel on her whilst she was holding him for the throat exam - and just as well as he's the biggest poo...! Still a little soft, but a lot more solid and more than yesterday... Not sure if it's a good sign though...

 

[Marigold]

Sorry to hear his, Sandrine. If you are not going to take him to the vet and can't find any immediate cause for his problems, it will probably be best just to leave him quietly somewhere away from the others and see how he is in the morning. Chickens do sometimes just recover overnight when left in peace, and however tame he is, handling him and trying unsuccessfully to look inside his mouth will only distress him and won't be helpful. If he's not better in the morning, or at least if you can't pin down his symptoms, you'll either need to take him to the vet; or encourage him to eat and drink and then leave him to rest; or if he's a lot worse, you may need to consider dispatching him. Trouble with chickens is that their systems are so different from ours that treatment is often on a 'best guess' basis, however experienced one may be. They can and do go up and down within a few hours, and when you know a bird well, it's usually possible to tell which way things are going. As he seems to be eating and drinking a little, that's a good sign. On your own, without a vets advice, there's really not much else you can do. When one of mine is ill with an ailment I'm uncertain about diagnosing for myself, which is quite rare, I've decided not to take them to the vet any more - they usually only get stuffed with broad-spectrum antibiotics that we really shouldn't be using in animals, and the charges are very high for what is often a hit-or-miss treatment.

 

[Sandrine]

I hear you Marigold... That's exactly why I have been humming and harring about taking him to the vet.
It's the first time that I have had a poorly chicken.
I am not going to attempt to look in his throat again.
I will keep an eye on him and see if he carries on trying to eat and drink today. If he looks like he is getting worse, in distress, suffering etc, then a decision will be made quickly as I wouldn't want him to be suffering needlessly...

Thank you all

 

[bigyetiman]

Sorry to hear about Peckford.
Can't comment on his ailment as it isn't something that has happening to any of ours yet. I usually take the same line as marigold, chickens like most animals can recover quickly, if not so be it. Most vets do just prescribe their antibiotic of choice and charge a fortune. We just adopt the put in quiet place and wait and see approach and if the bird appears to go downhill or is suffering, we dispatch.
Good luck with him Sandrine

 

[Marigold]

It's different if a bird has an obvious injury, which can be cleaned up and treated, or if the ailment is a common one with definite, treatable symptoms, like a blocked crop. The problem is when the bird is showing symptoms of something more unusual or invisibly internal, as seems to be the case here.
How is he today, Sandrine?

 

[Sandrine]

Ah it would seem that I have done it again and pressed the wrong button - my earlier post has disappeared!

Anyway, great news to report today.... He came out of the roosting box on his own this morning, ate and drank before getting more rest. Then when I went to see him after work, he was out again, eating, standing up much taller too. His eye isn't swollen anymore, and ever so slightly open. And he's treated us to a few cockledoodledoos as well! (Although my husband didn't as impressed at hearing Peckford again lol ? though I am sure he's just as relieved as I am at knowing that he's on the mend). One more night in our makeshift "hospital" and I am pretty sure he'll be fine and dandy to go back to his girls...
So from now on, I will adopt the same approach as you Marigold and Bigyetiman... ?

 

[Marigold]

What a relief! I'm so glad to hear he's better. Keep us posted on progress!

 

[bigyetiman]

That's brilliant news.
I think Marigolds advice was more informative than mine, but thanks anyway.
When we were newbies to hen keeping and before we found this fantastic forum, we did go to a vet because we weren't sure a couple of times. We just found that vets seems to assume most things will be worms, if not just give them antibiotics.
It is just great to have such knowledgeable people like Marigold with the hindsight of many years experience to help us all out.
Keep getting better Peckford

 

[Marigold]

Thanks for the thumbs-up, BYM, but really I don't have very much experience with sick chickens. Like many of us, what I've learned comes mainly from this forum. Mine usually live to draw their pensions, much longer than I really want them to!

 

[Sandrine]

Peckford has rejoined his girls. He was really chumping at the bits tbf and after a further thorough examination, I let him loose in the garden... He went straight for his favourite, little Booboo. His eye is still closed in the morning and practically open in the evening. But there is nothing apparently wrong with him. His behaviour doesn't show any signs of something wrong anymore, he eats, he drinks... He has fun with the girls. Not heard him crow much since he was still in his hospital room the other day. But again, no apparent reason why. So I am just letting him be, and keeping an eye on him...