Feather pecking

[Margaid]

I've just found this on the British Hens Welfare Trust website.

"In 2014 Defra announced a ban on the feeding of mealworms to chickens.

The ban is still not widely known by many poultry keepers. It can even cause confusion among those who do know about the ban, but do not understand the rationale behind it.

To put it simply most mealworms are imported and may have come into contact with, or been fed, animal protein which could then potentially pass on disease.

To provide context, the definition of products potentially containing animal proteins was redefined following the BSE epidemic in the 1980s and the foot and mouth outbreak of the early 2000s.

Importing mealworms which have not been inspected and certified means there is no way of knowing if they have been ingesting animal proteins or not. Here is the exact wording taken from Defra’s website:

Dried terrestrial invertebrates (insects) and processed animal proteins (PAPs) of insect origin cannot be used in farm animal feed or in treats, eg hen treats."

So get yourselves some live ones - the hens love them and if they wriggle into the bedding it provides even more fun.

 

[dianefairhall]

Thanks, Margaid. I didn't get as far as ordering the mealworms. We have not observed any aggressive behaviour recently as the other two have become wise to Morag coming up behind them! We've been giving them suet balls and they seem to enjoy those.

 

[Marigold]

I’m afraid suet balls are a definite no no, Diane. Hens shouldn’t be fed any extras which contain fat, let alone made entirely of fat. They will put on weight, just as we would if we had a nice treat of suet balls for pudding, and this will concentrate round their ovaries and produce egg laying problems.
Suet balls are suitable for wild birds who don’t have the advantages of food constantly on tap and are much more active anyway, flying around all day and using a lot more energy to keep alive and warm especially at night in a draughty tree, not a nice cosy coop.

 

[dianefairhall]

I bought them from Omlet so I assumed they would be OK:
https://www.omlet.co.uk/shop/chicken_keeping/feed_and_treats/25726/feldy_high_energy_chicken_pecker_balls_-_pack_of_6/?rf=7b28f3b163e4d8dde88ae4aaaa625396

 

[Margaid]

I bought them from Omlet so I assumed they would be OK:
https://www.omlet.co.uk/shop/chicken_keeping/feed_and_treats/25726/feldy_high_energy_chicken_pecker_balls_-_pack_of_6/?rf=7b28f3b163e4d8dde88ae4aaaa625396

They aren't suet balls but an Omlet product apparently designed for chickens.

CJ Wildbird food are out of stock of live mealworms but here's another stockist

https://www.livefoodsdirect.co.uk/amphi/mealworms/regular-mealworms

I read on another suppliers site that LIVE mealworms shouldn't be fed to hens, but these are bred in the UK and in any case the worms are vegetarian so there's no chance of them containing animal protein. Mine were fed on cabbage leaves and slices of carrot.

 

[dianefairhall]

Sorry, I just generally call them suet balls.

 

[dinosaw]

I've just found this on the British Hens Welfare Trust website.

"In 2014 Defra announced a ban on the feeding of mealworms to chickens.

The ban is still not widely known by many poultry keepers. It can even cause confusion among those who do know about the ban, but do not understand the rationale behind it.

To put it simply most mealworms are imported and may have come into contact with, or been fed, animal protein which could then potentially pass on disease.

To provide context, the definition of products potentially containing animal proteins was redefined following the BSE epidemic in the 1980s and the foot and mouth outbreak of the early 2000s.

Importing mealworms which have not been inspected and certified means there is no way of knowing if they have been ingesting animal proteins or not. Here is the exact wording taken from Defra’s website:

Dried terrestrial invertebrates (insects) and processed animal proteins (PAPs) of insect origin cannot be used in farm animal feed or in treats, eg hen treats."

So get yourselves some live ones - the hens love them and if they wriggle into the bedding it provides even more fun.

And then you see this

https://www.politico.eu/article/bugs-for-dinner-eu-agency-says-mealworms-safe-to-eat/

No wonder people don't know if they are coming or going nowadays.

 

[dianefairhall]

So I can eat them (no thanks!!) but my hens(who would love them) can't? Madness.

 

[Marigold]

I think it’s just a reminder that the safety of any edible animal product depends on how the animal was fed and treated when alive, how it was killed and prepared for sale. Size isn’t relevant - most of us wouldn’t like to eat chlorinated chickens or beef pumped with hormones and antibiotics, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that all chicken or beef is unsafe to eat. Same for insects.

And who knows what goes into cheap dog food, for example?

 

[Tweetypie]

Oh noooo. You won't believe this but I have a serious worm phobia. I can't even look at a photo of one. Hinders me, as I'm a keen gardener. Was great last year as it was too hot for worms. ?

 

[rick]

Its a food chain thing. Chickens are in the food chain. We can eat mealworms (as long as they are produced to a standard considered edible) the same as we can eat cow or pig. But you cant feed cow, pig or mealworms to a chicken and then eat the chicken. Its a inherently dangerous thing to do.
... Chickens will, of course, eat all sorts of bugs (or mice!) when free rangeing but they are from the wild. Its in industry where the danger arises because of the volumes, though it also arises in ocean food chains in a different way - the top predator gets the full whack of the accumulated effect.

 

[dinosaw]

Yet chicken feed is full of processed fish meal........

 

[Marigold]

Yet chicken feed is full of processed fish meal........

Nonsense! Not as long as you buy good quality feed. Mine get Dodson & Harrell layers pellets and this is the list of vegetarian ingredients;


Nutrient Analysis:

Protein 16.0%
Oil 3.5%
Fibre 3.5%
Ash 12.5%

Ingredients
Wheat, extracted sunflower, limestone flour, wheatfeed, dehulled soya bean
meal, distiller's wheat grains, vegetable oil, vitamin/trace mineral premix,
diacalcium, phosphate, salt, L-Lysine, sodium bicarbonate, pumpkin squash,
broccoli, spinach, tomato, marigold.
Available in Sizes - 5KG, 20KG,

 

[Margaid]

Yet chicken feed is full of processed fish meal........

Not any more, it tends to be soya instead.

 

[dinosaw]

Yet chicken feed is full of processed fish meal........

Nonsense! Not as long as you buy good quality feed. Mine get Dodson & Harrell layers pellets and this is the list of vegetarian ingredients;


Nutrient Analysis:

Protein 16.0%
Oil 3.5%
Fibre 3.5%
Ash 12.5%

Ingredients
Wheat, extracted sunflower, limestone flour, wheatfeed, dehulled soya bean
meal, distiller's wheat grains, vegetable oil, vitamin/trace mineral premix,
diacalcium, phosphate, salt, L-Lysine, sodium bicarbonate, pumpkin squash,
broccoli, spinach, tomato, marigold.
Available in Sizes - 5KG, 20KG,

https://www.farmandpetplace.co.uk/shop/products/poultry/poultry-feed/chicken-feed/marriages-chick-crumbs-and-coccidiostat-7-5kg.html

Marriages chick crumbs, 7th ingredient:-fish meal. Took me about 30 seconds to find that. Feeding fish meal to poultry is not illegal which is the point I was trying to make. I just didn't realise I would have to be so specific.

What people choose to feed their birds is beside the point. The comment I was replying to was about processed animal proteins in the food chain. Yes, in most backyard layers feeds, fish meal has been replaced and it would probably now be harder to find one with it than without.

 

[Icemaiden]

I use Smallholder layers ' pellets as they're GM free. There's no fish in them & no soya either.

 

[dianefairhall]

We've had to let the hens out to give Izzie and Skye a brief respite from Morag. She really has turned into a bully. She follows the other two (one by one) into the Eglu and gives them a duffing up. Neither of them has any bum feathers left. We couldn't see how bad it was until they came out. I was looking on Scotgov to see if avian flu restrictions had been lifted here but no joy. They'll go back in at bedtime and I hope nobody reports us. Unhappily it looks like Morag might have to go.

 

[dinosaw]

We've had to let the hens out to give Izzie and Skye a brief respite from Morag. She really has turned into a bully. She follows the other two (one by one) into the Eglu and gives them a duffing up. Neither of them has any bum feathers left. We couldn't see how bad it was until they came out. I was looking on Scotgov to see if avian flu restrictions had been lifted here but no joy. They'll go back in at bedtime and I hope nobody reports us. Unhappily it looks like Morag might have to go.

You could try these as a last resort.
https://www.omlet.co.uk/shop/chicken_keeping/anti_pek_and_healing/10750/bumpa_bit_-_25mm_-_single/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIiN-H4-S37gIVhNxRCh1mpwNSEAAYASAAEgJgSPD_BwE

 

[dianefairhall]

Thanks, Dinosaw, I will investigate.

Actually sent for some spray instead, should have done it at the start.

 

[dianefairhall]

Morag has gone. Our postman keeps hens and he said he'd take her, so she went this afternoon. He has about 30 hens so she will find it quite different but there is a cockerel there so she might enjoy that. I'm hoping the other two will moult soon and replace their feathers. They should be happier at least.