When will they stop laying for good?

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Margaid

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I found a website that told you for how long the different breeds of hen were productive, but stupidly didn't bookmark it. I have the opportunity to get some lavender Leghorns which are just over 2 years old. I know Legorns are prolific egg layers, but for how many years? I don't want to get them and then find in a year's time they stop laying for good. They are laying at the moment, which my Welsummers are not what with moulting and being attacked, so I'm having to buy eggs and understand the Welsummers may not start laying again until after the solstice.

Does anyone know for how many years they will continue to lay, even if production drops off a bit?
 
Who knows, so many of the banker breeds have been diluted.
Asked me that 40-50 years ago I would have said 4.5.6 years depending on the husbandry.
Now. who knows. A couple of years back I acquired some RIR stock from a breeder who was packing up
(he was 90 and said he may be getting past it) he started his line in the 1930s.
He had a Rhodie hen and at 9, was still laying the occasional egg.
My food costs I reckon 2 eggs a week are break even point, depends what you are paying for the
stock whether its worth a punt.
 
Yes i agree with Eddie - if you can get them at 'rehoming prices' (£2.50/£5 each?) and they seem in good condition it might be worth giving them a chance. Are they all actually in lay ATM, and does the present owner have any reliable records of their egglaying to date, and why is he/she getting rid of them? Leghorns are famous as good layers but not all birds are as good as the reputation of the breed as a whole. Can you quarantine them for a couple of weeks when they arrive? How many are there? and how would they fit into the age profile of your existing flock? (ie, would you just be adding to the generation of potential pensioners for a couple of years hence?)
 
No they're not at "rehoming price", they have to go because of work commitments apparently. They should be a year older than my existing stock and I can either get them here before the Welsummers or move them all together but keep them separate. There is also a possibility of some black Leghorn "growers" - they're in the Mart on the other forum Marigold.

Once I've decided how I can accomodate them I shall ask the questions you have posed Marigold - or I may ask them now, thanks for listing them. If they're not actually in lay there's no point - I may as well have the growers, or source birds elswehere. I don't want to get vaccinated hybrids but would like something that lays better than the Welsummers. I also want different coloured chickens and different coloured eggs just for fun.

I'm afraid I may be fairly ruthless about "penioners" Marigold - I need eggs and can't afford to carry non-productive hens. None of my hens have names so that I don't get too attached to them. Even the ctas and kittens don't have "proper" names - Big Puss, Pussykins, Black Tom, Tabby Tom so we can identify them. For some reason the original femal kitten is Daisy but the two new toms are Piglet because he's greedy and cute and Tiny Tabby (who isn't tiny!).

It's why I'm more anniyed than upset at losing one of my hens as a result of the hound attack, especially as we haven't found her.

Sorry, this has gone a bit off topic but it might help understand where I'm coming from.
 
I quite understand about not keeping pensioners once they're unproductive - I have to do this myself as I can only keep a maximum of 4-6 and I need them to lay enough eggs between them to keep us going. I just meant that if they all slow down at the same time you are spending more on feed than they are producing by way of eggs. I suppose mine are more like pets than yours, yes you do get fond of them and I expect I shall keep Marigold and Nutmeg until they drop, as they're such great characters and I've had them from chicks, but the hybrids have to earn their keep!
 
What is the price?
I had to smile
'the cats and kittens don't have "proper" names - Big Puss, Pussykins, Black Tom, Tabby Tom so we can identify them. For some reason the original female kitten is Daisy but the two new toms are Piglet because he's greedy and cute and Tiny Tabby (who isn't tiny!)'.
What would proper names be :-)05
 
Oscar, Toto (after the little boy in my French text book), my friend's cats are Malcolm and Arthur, then there are "cat" names like Smoky, Blackie, Snowy, Suky then there's Marmaduke, Thomas, Thomasina, Belinda, Tabitha - do you want me to go on? Generally speaking their "names" are identifiers as Tabby Tom is the spitting image of his mum, Pussykins, and having had another tabby kitten they had to be differentiated. It's easier to say "Piglet" than "the white kitten" and when he got warm the other day his ears and nose went pink, and his nose looked rather like a snout.

Our previous stray was PTP - part time pussycat, because we weren't here all the time so she had to fend for herself for a bit. We decided FTP soundes REALLY daft so she became Pussy, but somehow names get lengthened - to Pussy Pooh. So when Pussy (no 2) turned up after Pussy pooh disappeared she became Pussykins. Big Puss is self explanatory - if you haven't already done so have a look at his diary in the "general chatter" section of the forum.

This lot are really feral although they all come in to the caravan to feed and occasionally sleep which we hope will make it easier to catch them. I have managed to stroke the little kittens once or twice when they've been otherwise distracted. They are running riot in the 'van at the moment with "mum" making concerned little chirps. Pussypooh was obviously someone's pet as she had been spayed.

Now we're even further off topic - Marigold will be moving this somewhere else.
 
Don't worry, this thread is all about your setup Margaid!
How is Big Puss getting on? Has he written anything else in his diary lately, after his terrible experience? Have the girls noticed a difference where it matters most? Hope he keeps posting!
But to get back to the Leghorns - do let us know how you get on.
 
No, his Muse has deserted him along with other bits!

I think my next step is to ask some of the questions you raised Marigold and then gice it some more thought.

We have a breeder not far away and I've been to look at his birds - but the Leghorns are brown which is too similar to the Welsummers. But I really need to concentrate on getting the houses etc ready - as long as I confirm I want the Leghorns I don't need to collect them for about 6 weeks. I also need to think whether I want to replace the Welsummer or not - it would mean introducing only one new hen as I don't really want any more of that breed (apart from a cockerel). The annoying thing is I don't know whether she was the really dark egg layer.

Decsions, decisions!
 
In one of my old Poultry books a Frenchman did a study back around 1890 Margaid. He determined that a hen has 600 eggs to give. Some of ours have given less and none more. So on that basis if a Leghorn has been churning out 250 eggs a year for 18 months they still have potentially 200 -250 to give. Whether you get them in one year or several I don't know.
 
Thanks Chris. I've PM'd the seller (on another forum) and am waiting for a reply. How well do your Orpingtons lay? Have most orps had egg laying bred out of them, or is one more likely to find better egg layers in "back garden" flocks?
 
Our Buff Orps are pretty good. Had 200 in the first year from the 'show strain' mothers, but they were quite small. Crossed them with Bottom, a 'backyard' flock offspring and all three resulting hens produced 200 large eggs in their first year. They do go broody a lot though! Heard that some 'show strain' Buff Orps only manage 50 eggs a year, so you need to be careful what you buy Margaid. We didn't ask and were just lucky.
 
Thanks again Chris. The seller is having to reduce his flock because of work commitments and I'm not sure how old the Orps are. I've asked about egg laying so I'll see what response I get. I'm jealous of your 20 deg C - it's been dismal here all week, constant fog and drizzle and no let up until the weekend.
 
Had a look in the other forum and saw the advertisement. I would think £15 each is a bit steep for hens hatched over two years ago. By their next laying aeason they'll be pushingthree years old and any hen is surely getting past her egglaying best by then. You could get some POL Leghorn pullets for that price, with all their eggs ahead of them, as productivity is important for you. Or why not go for the black leghorn growers you mentioned? Also, I have a brown leghorn pullet and she's really beautiful, fantastic colours in her plumage and a very elegant shape. Not similar to a Welsummer at all in appearance, you wouldn't confuse them at a glance within your flock.
 
Thanks Marigold. That's why I wanted to know how much longer they would lay. I think the same would be true of his Buff Orps; he also has the black Leghorn growers and isn't too far away which is a bonus - if I don;t like the look of things I haven't wasted mucht time/effort. I'll have to go and have another look at Gobbetts sometime - he had silver spangled Appenzeller's too which I think are a good second to an Exchequer Leghorn
 
Well it looks like I'll go for the black growers if any, and maybe the Buff Orps as they are also not laying yet. The Lavs are probably from show bred birds he thinks and only one is laying at the moment. The black growers were hatched on August 1st which makes them only 12 weeks old, although by the time I get myself sorted they'll probably be 16 weeks - still a while to wait for eggs. I need to check whether Gobbetts have any POL - they charge £20 but they're really local and I could talk to them if things went wrong. The difference in price is probably less than the cost of fuel to go to Brum and back.

I think I've got to stop looking at "hens for sale" and get cracking on accomodation!!
 
Again these big generalisations about pure breeds. EddieS put his finger on it with his first reply - they are completely unpredictable now as they have been so diluted by bad breeding for a number of years. While Leghorns are fair layers, only the Utility Whites and Blacks will lay large numbers of big eggs. The more fancy types like the Blues, Lavender and Buffs are much less likely to have been bred for egg production.
Two of my old Blacks died this year at 8 years old. They still laid two a week on average (most of the youngsters I hatched were male). The Whites a year younger, I gave to a young chap in the village and he managed to hatch quite a few from as they were still laying and I had enough of their daughters of varying ages. Even the best Utility Brown Leghorns did not lay up the the numbers of the Whites and Blacks.
Remembering that most of the breeds have been split into show strains and a few utility ones. it becomes even less predictable. I would Utility Black Leghorns at 2 years old for £15 as I would expect them to lay well enough to give me eggs to sell and to hatch some replacements. Most sellers have no idea what utility means or what number of eggs you could anticipate they would lay.
The parent breeds of the hybrids are still going strong, White Rhodes, Red Rhodes, Barred Plymouth Rocks and Light Sussex are in the hands of the big breeding companies but are not available to the public.
If any seller does not come up with convincing answers to questions on breed, parentage and source of the stock, I'd leave well alone.
I
 
As this seller says proudly that they were hatched in his back bedroom, it doesn't sound as if he has much choice of stock to select from as parents and probably just used eBay eggs of unknown origin. You say he 'thinks' they're 'probably from show birds' which says a lot. Its likely that he went for lavenders because they are pretty and a bit unusual, so not bred for utility anyway. (though i think a good traditional white bird is preferable to the grey version myself.) Also it sounds to me as if he just enjoyed the fun of hatching the chicks and now, with winter approaching, wants to find someone to take most or all of his birds off him to save him the trouble of looking after them. Nothing wrong with any of that, but if he wants to rehome his birds I think he should be grateful to anyone who offers realistic prices, not what he is asking.
 
From the exchnage of PM's I think you're being a bit harsh Marigold. He has answered all my questions honestly. He wanted to concentrate on the Lav Leghorns - so sold his Exchequers, but kept the black mum because she laid so well. The only thing I haven't asked is who the "father" was.

His work commitment is changing (haven't asked how) and he's trying to persuade his dad it only takes 20mins a day to see to the hens - when he spends most of the day with them!

It sounds as though I need to stick to white or black then Chuck. He wants £10 each for the growers. I had a look at the Leghorn club website but there doesn't seem to be much about. Maybe I'm expecting too much, thinking I can get some birds to lay eggs for me over the winter.
 
I didn't mean to be harsh, or to suggest that he was in any way dishonest or misrepresenting his birds. As I said, nothing wrong with his approach and I expect the birds are well kept. I just queried the price in relation to their age, their breeding line, and the time of year. If he needs urgently to reduce his flock, he will have to accept that keeping birds through the winter is expensive and that even if in lay now, ,adult purebred hens are quite likely to go off lay at this time of year, especially if they're dealing with the shock of moving to a new home. It costs at least 50 p per week for pellets for a hen, so if new adults are taken on at this time of year, and don't lay well until Jan or Feb, you have to add the feed costs to the price you pay. You might as well be feeding growers for the same price in pellets. If you like the birds, I would try a realistic offer and see what he says.
 
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