Update on Charley, Martha and Chicks

[Sandrine]

Here are 3 videos from today, the chicks' 5 week birthday ?

I've been given the whole family some greens (sometimes cucumber, peas, kale or tenderstem broccoli) and they love it! Well apart from the kale... Charley and Martha never used to bother before, but looks like they're showing the right example to their offsprings lol

I think the two brown back ones are both females. They look more and more like their mum.... The other two, I am not sure, especially with the lack of distinct markings. The fully white one is getting pretty big so I am thinking female. The white and grey one, really not sure. No obvious markings, no bigger or smaller than the others and nothing notable in the behaviour yet...

Any ideas?

https://youtu.be/_AnkPT60ruo

https://youtu.be/VUBy0e668z4

https://youtu.be/l2DjWtWxjvk

 

[Marigold]

FANTASTIC videos, Sandrine! The pure white one is so pretty. Is this rare for CPQs? I see what you mean about their size, I expect you can tell them apart from their markings but I wasn't sure which were the parents.
Brilliant success, to rear them all from a home hatch. Are you going to keep them all?

 

[Tweetypie]

Great video's and such lovely birds. Like Marigold, I especially like the white one, she is so unusual.

 

[Sandrine]

I know right? I suspect this must be rare to have an all white one? I haven't seen any photos on the internet of all white CPQ...
You're right I can tell them apart with the markings, but also Martha is quite a lot bigger than everyone else. I do manage to get Charley mixed up though because his offsprings are same size as him now lol
I really want to keep them all but space is a problem. They seem absolutely fine and perfectly happy where they are but I don't think they really have enough space. I have moved things around in their cage so they have more space and a bigger dust bath. They tend to stay altogether in a big bunch when they're not busy walking around or eating... I've not seen them fight or anything so they are still one big happy family at the minute. I still can't tell whether they are girls or boys... So yeah, right I don't know what I am going to do!

 

[Marigold]

It looks a nice big enclosure you have them in - what are the actual measurements? Coturnix quail don't need much room, I used to work on a square foot of cage space each, and of course they're considerably bigger than CPQs. So long as any boys don't get aggressive or frustrated as they grow up you may be OK. I gather CPQs are more sociable as a group than coturnix, and less inclined to rape anything in sight, is that right?

 

[Sandrine]

The enclosure is just under 4.5 square feet. And they have access to the whole surface effectively because they climb on top of their little shelters as well as walking or sleeping or laying eggs inside the shelter.
They are the same size as Bernard the yellow Canary (their flat mate who lives in the top half of the cage) - so definitely much smaller than your cortunix I would have thought.
Still trying to figure out which are girls and which are boys and I can only go on behaviour and markings because trying to catch them is quite difficult and I traumatic. One of them landed in Bernard's trough when I was only freshening up their dust bath and feeding them... (See photo) I don't think they've started laying yet, so that's not helping lol ?
3 of them have a runny mascara mark under their eye like Martha and the fully white one doesn't. Their feathers under the tail are the same colour as the on ones on their back, no red ones like Charley. So for now I'm going with either all girls or 3 girls and the white one a boy.
On another note Martha is back in full laying mode and I think she might possibly be broody again....!!
They do seem happy as a bunch. There's still one with a bit of a bare back, a bit like Charley used to be, but can't see why. They definitely aren't fighting or pecking so really not sure.

 

[Marigold]

Do CPQ boys crow? I know coturnix do - although it's not always easy to see which one is doing it! Only time will tell....
How do you manage cleaning out the cage? I had a pair of cages in the shed for mine, so I only had to catch them, one by one, (with the shed door carefully shut) then transfer them to the other cage, which had the same setup as the first one - then clean out the cage they came from. I think before I had that setup I just caught them and put them in a box whilst cleaning the cage, but it was more tricky as the ones already in the box tried to get out when I opened the lid to add the next bird.

 

[Sandrine]

Yes I guess they crow, though only when they are calling their partner or when they're now happy about something - so like when it's too cold, the feeder is empty,...
George our Cockatiel is quite vocal, Charley will crow when George has been expressing himself a little too loudly or for too long lol
So far, when Charley has been crowing, I've heard one of the young ones "respond" or accompany him but it wasn't a distinctive male cry... The female CPQ also crows (if you can call it that). The male has a distinct crow pattern made up of 3 or 4 syllables if you like. He repeats this 3 times. The female crow is a very similar pattern but only 2 or 3 syllables and she only repeats it twice. I haven't quite managed to work out when she does it yet, although it has often been at the same time or straight after Charley's crow.
The young one crowing didn't have the pattern quite right yet (though sounded more female), some that's why I couldn't tell.
To clean their enclosure, i just freshen it up regularly removing soiled bedding best I can. For the big clean up, I have to catch them and put them in a box whilst I clear everything out, wash and replace everything. It's a two person job because although they do settle in the box eventually, until they are all together, we have a bunch of escape artists!

Also, I can confirm now that Martha is broody again, and sat patiently on her eggs.... I forgot to take them out daily, and then she has done a bit of a nest so they were hidden...
So what do I do now? Although it is a great experience, there definitely won't be enough room for all in there this time... I could sell them I guess - but are there any rules in the UK for this?
I would feel bad taking her eggs, she did look a little lost, when I did that after her first attempt had failed. Though she soon started to lay again and became broody again eventually. So it probably would not work anyway.

 

[Marigold]

Maybe you just have to think what's best for Martha in the long run - those of us who keep hens are familiar with the same sort of problem, when we have a hen who goes broody persistently when no chicks are wanted. Her hormones just take over, and usually it's best for her not to attempt a second brood because all that sitting can lead to loss of weight and condition. And, in your case, unwanted chicks.
If you decide to let her have another brood, maybe you need to arrange to sell or rehome the first lot now, before the new ones hatch. Or, if you decide you don't want any more babies, at least this year, then remove all Martha's eggs and keep on looking for new eggs as they appear, so there's no chance of her settling on them. She won't start to sit in earnest until she has a clutch, so if the clutch never materialises, eventually she will stop trying.
Selling chicks is tricky, because of course you want to know where they are going. Home-bred CPQs are a niche product, and I'm sure lots of people would be interested if only they knew about them. You could try advertising on various poultry forums, including this one - say whereabouts in the country you live, and do ask for some money as you are more likely to get genuine people than if you offer free to good home.

 

[Sandrine]

Ok thank you Marigold.
I think for this time it will be best me removing the eggs and revisiting the whole breeding idea when I have a better set up. I really want to keep the ones I have already if I can and I am looking at ways for me to do so. I am looking at getting or making an indoor aviary which would give a little more ground space for the quails, whilst being tailored to the space I have available. Hopefully this will happen sooner rather than later. This will also avoid the trauma of super small quail chicks escaping through the bars and falling to their death. That's how I lost one of them even though I thought I had taken good measures to make it impossible for them to escape....

At the moment I have some of my bantams' eggs in the incubator and Booboo (one of my bantams) settled on eggs too... So I would rather concentrate on the bantam chicks first...

Thank you very much fir your good advice! It's always very much appreciated

 

[Sandrine]

I have had a breakthrough!!! After observing the happy family for behaviour, I have seen the red tail coverts on two of the "chicks" and the other two have a very distinctive female shape...
So the naming ceremony has now taken place at 6 ½ weeks
Sorry the photos aren't perfect but they won't stop moving!

 

[Marigold]

What a lovely gallery! Let's hope nobody needs re-naming. (Bernard? Leonora?)