Rat Problem!

[Margaid]

I have just caught up with this thread having not been reading stuff for a few days, and judging by his last comment Woodruffsdad is probably not reading it anymore.

He has said "I now consider this matter closed as certain posters (you know who you are) are becoming personal and insulting."

However he seems to think he can make the comment "I have no doubt that the same people who wish to destroy rats are the same people who would like to see the reintroduction of hunting with hounds!" with impunity.

Publicly damning the very group of people you have asked for advice because you don't like the advice is such insulting behaviour.

As others have pointed out, the initial post was how to protect the feed from rats and there was much sound advice given. If we all thought that the beliefs we hold are above the law, we will descend into anarchy. Marigold found the relevant legal passage and I quote again here the important paragraph from her post:-

Part One - Rats and Mice
It is the duty of the local authorities to:
destroy rats and mice on land which they occupy, and to keep such land so far as practicable free from rats and mice.
to enforce the duties of owners and occupiers of land, to carry out such operations to rid their land of potential hazard causing pests.
Every local authority must keep records relating to such actions taken, with regards to pest control. Land owners and occupiers must inform their local authority in writing if substantial numbers of rats, mice and other pests are present on their land. This is not applicable to agricultural land. Any person who fails to give notice will be subjected to a fine.

The point here is that we are talking about a public health issue. Woodruffsdad has said "Contrary to popular belief, rats are not 'dirty' - they are in fact extremely clean animals, and spend around a third of their lives grooming themselves." That may well be the case but it does not alter the fact that rats (and mice) are incontinent. At the risk of upsetting some sensibilities (or having this edited by the moderators) it means that THEY PEE AND CRAP while they are running around. In my mother-in-law's cottage I noticed rat droppings in her unused sitting room. The cottage was old and the rats had burrowed under the walls (little or no foundations), and had chewed through the floorboards which were just resting on wooden bearers straight on the earth. The rat droppings were everywhere - on the floor, sofa, armchairs and on a table, the top of which was 30 inches above the floor. The droppings were visible, the urine was not but everything was contaminated. Cleaning up was a fairly mammoth task as was sealing all the holes under the walls and replacing floorboards.

Statistics may show that there have be no direct cases of "death by rat" but that doesn't mean the presence of rats hasn't caused death.

At the risk of sounding vindictive, I hope Woodruffsdad's neighbours complain to the council about the rats and that the council lives up to it's responsibilities as it is clear Woodruffsdad's isn't doing so.

 

[chrismahon]

This thread reminds me of a rather unpleasant experience my City and Guilds Plumbing training definitely didn't prepare me for. I was called out to a small country cottage which reported having water running from the roof. Clearly a fault with the header tank valve I arrived with ladders. I was shown to the loft hatch which was in a small, but very clean and carpeted, bathroom. Putting sheets on the floor was a wise move. I climbed the ladder and lifted the loft hatch and some 'debris' dropped around me, which is usual. I then tipped the loft hatch onto its side to manoeuvre it in-between the roof joists. At that point I was completely smothered in 'debris' which went everywhere. All over the bathroom , down my shirt collar, down my sleeves, in my hair and I was spitting bits out. When the dust settled closer inspection revealed that the 'debris' was in fact years and years of huge RAT DROPPINGS. They lay in a layer a good inch thick over every surface of the loft and the stench was incredible. Suited up with dust mask I finished the job, but was always very cautious about loft hatches after that.

 

[Marigold]

We may just have to agree to disagree about this one, Woodruffsdad. Your initial query was about how you might protect the hens feed from the rats, and some suggestions have been made, although I fear that experience shows the only way to prevent rats eating hen feed is to keep the hens plus feed in a rat proof run, and the spare feed itself in a metal bin, and to take effective measures against the rat colony. You said that you leave the run open at night so that the cat can have a go at the rats, but I feel that probably this encourages the rats more than the cat is able to deal with them. Also of course there is some danger to the cat of being bitten by a rat fighting for its life. You seem to be OK with passing on the responsibility for actually killing the rats to the cat!
Various ways of getting rid of the rats have been discussed, and you feel you don't want to be involved in any of the more effective ones. In fact you give me the sense that you don't actually mind having the rats around, though you would apparently be happy to catch them humanely and release them on somebody else's territory. Others on here have shared their experience that ignoring the problem, or making ineffective attempts to deal with it, is not what experienced poultrykeepers would advise.

This thread seems to have gone off track somewhat, we are not discussing the ethics of hunting foxes with dogs, or the comparative statistics of dog injuries to people. Your beliefs are your own, nobody is denying your right to deal with the rats as you please, and although things can a get a bit robust at times, we do not abuse each other on this forum. However, it has been pointed out to you that it is illegal to allow a known rat infestation to develop, and I feel that perhaps you should be having this conversation with your neighbours, as well as on here, and see what they think about it.

 

[dinosaw]

I am always very cautious of hatches for a different reason, wasps which I really don't like, every year in the house we have just left they would make a nest and you never quite knew where it would be. Just another word on rats and their potential threat, humans have persecuted them, rightly in my view ever since they realised they were the carrier of the bubonic plague spreading rat fleas. The black death epidemic of the 14th century wiped out 50 per cent of Europes population and barely a year went by in Britain between then and the end of the great plague in 1665 that large numbers of deaths due to the disease were not recorded. If you totted up the millions of deaths caused by plague against the number of deaths due to dogs you would have quite an uneven tally and I don't think anyone disputes that rat fleas live primarily on rats which is funnily enough why they are called rat fleas, humans especially are the host of last resort for any flea as our body temperature is too low and while they can live on cats and dogs their preference is for rodents, indeed when Londoners started killing dogs and cats in 1665 in response to the plague outbreak it actually got worse as this caused rat numbers to increase further. The comparative lack of deaths due to rats this century is testament to most peoples aversion to them and efforts to control their numbers.

 

[Tim]

I have been following this thread for the last couple of days between my travels and can see there are strong opposing views. I don't believe in over-moderating a forum, people are entitled to their views and I have my own (fairly strong) views on this but I think we've just about gone as far as we can now on the kill / no kill argument so I'm going to go back to the the original question.

Is there any way to protect the hen food from these furry rascals?

Yes, you can protect your food but there are two non destructive ways I can suggest of reducing your fury rascals.

1. Remove all sources of food and water. A treadle feeder as already mentioned can work. Have a look at this review I wrote on a Grandpas feeder a while ago.

http://poultrykeeper.com/equipment-reviews/grandpas-feeder

I still use this in one of my field runs and have been impressed with it. The rest of my feeders are hanging up inside hen houses that are rat proof when closed at night.

Rats do not live too far from a source of water because they need to drink regularly so don't forget to empty water at night.

2. Sealing off the chicken run - using suitable mesh, or a fence with an electric wire close to the top offset by a couple of inches. This stops rats running over the top but the shock will not harm them. They will learn not to touch the wire again.

This is how many wildfowl collections are protected from rats, stoats, mink and other predators.

By removing their food and water source, it may cause the rats to move on and will certainly stop them from increasing their numbers too much.

Keep in mind that if their food supply is scarce, they will search out alternative sources. This is usually done by gnawing through the bottom of wooden doors to get to food and so on. It makes trapping them (in your no kill trap) easier if they are hungry.

A very common question I see is "will I get rats if I keep chickens?" So neighbours faced with a rat problem will probably associate the rats with your chickens. Be prepared to let them know what you are doing about the problem so as not to have a knock on the door from environmental health who will insist on poisoning as has already been well covered in this thread.

Good luck, and do let us know how you get on.