Pop Hole and Quail Numbers

[DorsetEd]

Hi,

I'm new to the forum and completely new to keeping quail. I've nearly finished building a coop and run and need to finish the front of the coop. What is a good size pop hole for the quail to get in and out?

Am just looking to keep a few for eggs and was planning to get 4 females as they are for me and the wife. What are people's experience of this many, do you find you end up getting more and how easy is it to inroduce new ones?

Thanks,

Ed.

 

[Marigold]

Like you I'm a quail newbie, and initially we were planning to build a small aviary for them, but then I visited the setup of the breeder I finally got mine from and saw how hers were kept in cages in a shed. They looked so comfortable under cover, and you could get so many more in a small space because the cages were stacked in layers, that we decided to get a small 6ft by 4ft summerhouse and build in 3 stacks of cages across the back wall, each layer having two cages 3ft wide by 2ft deep, which is plenty big enough for 5-6 quail. At present I'm keeping two 'families' each with a male and 3 females, in a converted 2-layer guinea pig cage in our present summerhouse. In each cage I've put a sort of cardboard box shelter, with a semi-open front, which they seem to like to go into to find shade sometimes, but they don't seem to need to roost properly like chickens do. I'd think that in a run they'd need a covered roof, especially in winter, because although they're hardy you couldn't expect them to be happy on a wet and muddy floor, also of course they just lay their eggs all over the floor so if it was muddy the eggs would get a bit dirty. I have a spare eglu I was going to use for mine before we went for the summerhouse instead. I should think the pophole would be OK if it was about 5 ins square. They aren't very big, but they don't seem to like going into very small spaces. I'd love to see pics of your setup if you can post any.

P.S.(Edit) I looked at my quail today and came to the conclusion that if I were making a pophole it could usefully be bigger than I said - maybe at least 6ins square - actually if you made it big enough for a bantam hen, you would have the option at some point of using it for chickens if you wanted. So long as it was big enough, any size up from this would do.

I'm hoping F. Xmas is going to come up with an incubator so that I can breed some next Spring when the days lengthen and they come into lay. Then I can fill some of the spare built-in cages with lovely little quail who will lay eggs for me - I have a feeling they're even more addictive than chickens, if only because space isn't such an issue!
This doesn't answer any of your questions, i know, except that yes, I would think 4 was fine to start with but you would end up getting more, they're so lovely and 3-4 eggs per day would be less than the equivalent of 1 hens egg in terms of volume. If you have even a small run you could fit in more than 4 and they aren't expensive - my hens were £6 each, males £4, so you can get 3 females for the price of one nice POL pullet. Whilst you're there at the breeders place it saves money on petrol not to have to come back for more once you get the bug. There didn't seem to be any problems with introducing new ones, nothing like chickens, but you might as well have a male for each 4-6 females in case you decide to get an incy as well, and i think it would be best to stick to one male per run or cage to avoid fights. If you do get a male, try to obtain one which isn't related to the females if you think you might like to breed from them. You need at least 3-4 females per male, as otherwise the girls' feathers wear out too fast under his randy attentions. The turnover is so swift, they are mature by 8-10 weeks and the eggs only take 18 days to incubate, so nothing like the 7-month wait from egg to laying bird you get with chickens.

 

[DorsetEd]

Hi Marigold,

Thanks for the advice, as it was I'd gone for a 9" by 7" hole as that seemed to suit the dimensions of the coop. I'll try and post some pics with this as it's nearly finished apart from adding the runners and door plus top vent door.

It's basically a compromise as I wanted to do a dry run before I built something similar for chickens. So, it's a bit large for quail but too small for chickens. Means the quail have got a bit of a palace but I don't mind as we've got space in the garden. Hopefully it should be easy to move around and I'm going to put a fox skirt all the way round the base. If nothing else it means I building the chicken one should be less stressful....

 

[DorsetEd]

More pics, not figured out how to upload multiple files

 

[DorsetEd]

And another

 

[DorsetEd]

And another

 

[DorsetEd]

One more of the inside, I clad it all in plywood, sealed it up with silicone sealant to hopefully keep out mites and then clad the outside in shiplap.

 

[Marigold]

That's just a GORGEOUS coop, lucky birds! i love the colours and there's masses of room for lots more than the 4 you planned. i don't think it's too big for quail, as although you can keep them in smaller spaces they do like to run around and will enjoy the space. When my built-in cages are finished they'll be 3ft by 2ft, each for a maximum of 5 birds, ie over 1sq.ft per bird. i have seen estimates of how much space per bird commercial breeders allow, and it's about 4ins by 4ins!
i think your coop would also be lovely for small bantams, especially Seramas, which aren't really all that much bigger than quail. The breeder I got my quail from had a trio of seramas and i was really amazed at how tiny and perfect they are. Of course you'll have to plan in a nestbox when you make the 'chicken palace' version.

When I adapted my guinea pig cage as a temporary home I had a hole in the 'bedroom' floor with a ramp, and I did find the hole needed to be bigger than I thought at first, to cope with the slope of the ramp coming up underneath it - I hadn't realised how much this would reduce the space available. Did you find this?

Were you intending to put anything on the surface of the slabs, to make it a bit warmer and softer on their feet? Mine do like digging around in the wood shavings in their cage and maybe slabs would be a bit cold and hard for them. There are quite a lot of types of flooring to choose from.

The one problem i could foresee with your coop is that I wondered how you would catch a quail if you needed to handle it. They are very skittery little things, and although some people do succeed in taming them, I haven't managed this with mine. Also I expect you've read about their habit of 'boinking' when alarmed, ie flying upwards very fast, and possibly hitting their heads on the roof of the coop/cage. I found my most beautiful boy lying dead in the cage a day or so ago, and I don't know why he died, but he might have boinked. I wondered if you might accidentally let one get out when you opened the door, and then maybe your chance of catching it would be quite slim. In my summerhouse I always shut the door before I open the cages, so if I do lose one it's more possible to catch it. It's much easier to tame chickens because you can get in the run with them holding a box of corn and they come to you.

Have you found a breeder local to you yet? If your username indicates you live in Dorset, there are a couple of people in Blandford, I believe, though stocks tend to be low at this time of year when the birds are not so likely to be actively breeding.

 

[DorsetEd]

HI,

Yes, if I build one for the chickens it will have a nest box as well. I might make it as a removable side wall as I've used bathroom sliding door locks on all the doors and they provide a good tight fight for the door frame. One of the reasons for giving it so many doors is so that I can hopefully herd them in to either the coop or the lower run and cover the hole at the top of the ladder so that I can confine them in a smaller area to catch them without them flying off. I'm hoping that neither area is too tall so if they take flight they can't get up too much speed but I may well have to revisit that once the birds are in. Mind you, there isn't much I can do other than stapling on thick foam to the roof of each area!

Did think that maybe the hole for the ladder would be too small but thought I'd keep it small to begin with and then make it longer if necessary as I can drop the jigsaw in to the hole to increase the size pretty easily and it's one of the reasons I didn't put a cross brace in just there.

One other thing is the ladder may be too steep, in which case I'll have to provide a staggered ladder, i.e. put in a platform at the back end of the run that the ladder will go to and then another ladder down from the platform to the floor.

The coop itself is going to be on grass and is just and I mean just light enough to move without too much bother between two people. The weight went up incredibly quickly as I added the shiplap. Prior to that I thought I'd have to peg it to the floor in high winds. This is the main reason for cutting a fox skirt to go round it. Thinking about a foot wide of chicken wire pegged flat to the floor all around the base. We have got resident foxes who take neighbours chickens, guinea pigs etc and they are fearless and persistent.

As for breeders I was probably going to just go to 3 Kabins at Lytchett Minster for some Japanese Coturnix as they seem to have plenty. Not sure how comptetive they are on price but as you say it is the wrong time of year to do all this really as I guess they aren't going to be laying much as the days are too short. It's all hobby though and I can look forward to eggs in the Spring!

The only reason I was able to afford to build rather than buy is because I live round the corner from In Excess (I think there is one in Ringwood) and they have some very cheap timber. Does make it time consuming though as none of the wood is treated so it's 3 coats of timber presavative before I then put the 2-3 coats of the colour on top. Will have to see how it fares after one winter.

Any tips on what to feed them? I was going to buy some quail pellets from Marriages, probably a bit more pricey but then I only have to feed four.

 

[Marigold]

Well, you've done a beautiful job building it, and it will last years longer than if you bought a cheapo one from fleabay. and it will look lovely in your garden. Well worth all those coats of preservative - I put 3 coats on the summerhouse we're adapting for my quail, which will be worthwhile I hope, and i shall paint the insides of the cages white to make them as light as possible. I'm getting sheet vinyl to line the floors of the cages, so the wood shavings will just slide out on the vinyl, and it can easily be cleaned and disinfected.
Yes i did wonder whether the ladder was a bit steep perhaps, and an intermediate platform could help. Perhaps when the great day arrives and you put them in the coop for the first time, it might be good to confine them to the top level for a few days until they've settled down, then let them out to find their own way up and down the ladder to the base? Otherwise they might get 'stuck' at the bottom when night fell, and just huddle there in the cold.
Specialist quail food sounds a good idea if you can get it - a lot of people feed chicken layers pellets, but most of the quail sites recommend a higher-protein diet for quail, at least when laying and in preparation for breeding, at least 20%. I feed mine on Garvo Alfamix, which is a nice mixture of seeds, grains and mini-pellets and has a high protein content, intended as posh food for special chicks. It is expensive compared to pellets, but like you I only have a few and compared with the setup costs of cages etc their food is a minor concern. I'm lucky in that a Garvo agent is nearby and I get my hens food from there anyway. I also give them a sprinkle of dried mealworms every day, which they love. After experimenting with various containers I've arrived at a chick feeder which I put in a slightly larger casserole dish, which catches most of the bits they throw out all over the place - less wasteful. I also tried various drinking pots, the sort you hang on the side of the mesh, because I did like seeing them having a 'proper' drink, but as this did fill up with shavings and poo I finally settled on what the breeder used, ie a giant rabbit bottle on the outside of the cage with the nozzle through the mesh. I got the giant size because it has a bigger nozzle and i thought it would make it easier for them, but i expect the medium size would have been OK.

Another thing mine love is a nice dustbath in dry silver sand. Every day I sieve the sand, chuck out the feathers and mess, and replace it with cleaned sand. They then queue up to get in there and make a mess throwing the sand all over their wings. It's so funny, just like us when we get into a nice hot bath. I use quite a small container, a plastic box about 6ins long by 4ins wide, so a quail just fits in there like in a bathtub.

Happy days!

 

[DorsetEd]

Thanks Marigold,

Yes I was thinking I'd keep them in the top area to begin with. I've got the feeder and a rabbit bottle now so hoping to pick up the quail this weekend!

Realistically how many quail do you think I could fit in there? The coop area that is fully enclosed is about 24"x26". The reason I ask is that a friend who owns a farm shop has asked if I could keep some for him till about January so my intial 4 birds may now be many more if possible.

Am I right in thinking that unlike chickens the living space per bird is the total area of the coop and run rather than how many can comfortably fit in the coop area? Do you shut yours in the coop at night or leave the pop hole open for them to roam?

Lots of newbie questions!

 

[Marigold]

(NB for some strange reason, when i clicked Edit it looks OK, but when posted the pics and parts of the text are coming up in places I didn't want them to, different than in the original, so I hope you can sort it out, I've given up, sorry. The two pics of the plastic cage are of the whole and of part of the floor space.)

Wow, what an exciting weekend ahead! Do post some pics when they've settled in.
Like you, i'm a real newbie to quail, so perhaps with luck someone will come on and give you more experienced advice on stock densities etc. I've preferred to start by giving mine plenty of room and then building up when i've found out more about how they get on. At present i'm working to 1sq.ft per bird, and have 2 guinea pig cages in use, both about 2X3ft. The wooden one has been adapted into 2 layers, a bit like yours, initially with ramp though i didn't use this as i found the top part, with the large animal sleeping compartment, was darker than the bottom, and so i just put 4 in the bottom part and the other 4 in the plastic cage.

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Just to show you what 4 look like in 2X3ft, this is the plastic cage, 2X3ft, with an open-fronted cardboard snuggle box (no pophole needed.) plus feeder and quail-sized dustbath.

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and this is the plastic cage with the snuggle box.



When my new cages are finished they'll be 2X3 ft and i shall aim for 1 male + 3-5 females in each. I expect i could put more than that if/when i breed some young ones, and i know lots of people do keep quail at much higher densities than that, but i prefer to see tham with plenty of room to enjoy their busy little lives.

As for your friend, if it were me I'd say to him that you haven't got room for 'many more until January'. For one thing, this is obviously true, and also I expect you'd rather just feel your way with just your own new birds for a few weeks, especially as we're going into winter now. It wouldn't be a good idea to mix his with yours in any case, and you couldn't take on two or more males as they would fight. . Maybe he can get a second hand cage, or even use a large box with a mesh top, indoors somewhere? Anyway, that's his problem!