New run and security

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chickenfan

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I've just built a new 60 m run for my birds on my allotment. It is 6ft high 2" weldmesh. I'm wondering whether an anti-dig skirt will be safe enough, or whether two rows of electric wire along the bottom would be much safer? The plot backs onto woodland and is within a couple of meters of a stream on Dartmoor. I perhaps need to worry about stoats/mink/polecats as well as foxes?
 
chickenfan said:
I've just built a new 60 m run for my birds on my allotment. It is 6ft high 2" weldmesh.
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I would have thought it would have been more effective to have used 1 inch or less weldmesh as I think 2 inch will only keep the larger of your local predators out ie foxes. If it was my run I would have built a 1 inch weldmesh cage so nothing could climb up the sides and over the top and use 2 strands of electric wire around the perimeter. As it is I am not sure how you are going to keep the smaller predators from either climbing or squeezing through the mesh. Perhaps an electric poultry fence instead of 2 strands of wire around the perimeter would work. I use electric poultry fences and have never lost any chicken to predators.
 
How much do you worry about other predators Sussex? Would they not just run up and down the mesh anyway, whatever size the hole? (half inch seems to be the smallest available - I could put this along the bottom). Thanks - interesting your electric fencing has proved trustworthy.
 
Your new run sounds wonderful - how many are you planning to keep in it? I agree that a smaller mesh size would exclude, not only smaller predators such as rats and mice and stoats, but also wild birds which could get through 2" mesh, pollute the water, steal the food and introduce red mite from their feathers. Might it be possible to cover at least the bottom of the sides with cheaper, thinner, small-sized chicken wire, relying on the weldmesh for strength but preventing small animals and birds from walking in?
I would be more concerned about the top of the run, as foxes can climb a 6ft side and get in from above, wherever you do at the base, if it's left uncovered. Also of course any kind of bird can get in at the top, though with a lovely big run like you have built I don't know if covering it would be practical. When you say 60 metres, do you mean 60 sq. metres, or is that the length?
Are you going to divide it so the hens use one part at a time? Any chance of making it Fort Knox at one end, for when you shut them up last thing at night and early in the morning? Maybe you could roof part of it to provide extra shelter and a dry area for them?
Are there likely to be any problems with your neighbours on the plots if you do instal effective electric fencing as a backup? It would be good against two-legged predators as well as foxes, though, wouldn't it?
 
chickenfan said:
How much do you worry about other predators Sussex? Would they not just run up and down the mesh anyway, whatever size the hole? (half inch seems to be the smallest available - I could put this along the bottom). Thanks - interesting your electric fencing has proved trustworthy.
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If I was building a weldmesh run I would not build it without a roof or an electric fence to stop predators burrowing under it. The electrified poultry netting works well as a deterrent as long as it is kept taut and the battery is changed as soon as the red light flashes. I have never shut my chicken in at night and have never lost any to predators. We know we have foxes and mink along the river bank in the field beside the run.
 
The thing about the other predators is they only kill one chicken at a time Chickenfan. A UK fox will kill them all and eat one. Over here the foxes hunt in packs just like wolves- we hear them calling to each other. When they attack chickens they take them all, leaving just a few feathers as evidence. Flocks of up to 20 have just disappeared overnight (and here you can rule out theft as a possibility). There is no such thing as an urban fox here so any kind of man-made structure the foxes avoid. Poultry keepers generally have a good dog and multi-strand electric fencing just 2 feet high is sufficient. The big danger here is wild boar which can grow up to 400Kg -they will pass through chicken wire without noticing.

I would add finer mesh at the bottom as a precaution but most important is the electric lines top and bottom and use the mesh as the ground circuit. 2" weld mesh is easily climbed. Our temporary enclosure is 25mm chicken mesh hung loosely from tensioned wires. Nothing can climb a wobbly mesh fence although the neighbours cat has tried and fallen off many times! We have a poultry net outside that, simply to keep the neighbours cockerel and Mycoplasma infected flock away.
 
Thank you so much for your really helpful feedback everyone. The plot is a 60 m length of strong galvanised mesh (sorry not the rigid weldmesh) that goes around my whole allotment. I am allowed 6 hens. They will have the whole plot in the winter, and half of it in the summer so I can grow things. I will attach small-holed chcken mesh around the bottom as you suggest, if the potential stoats, mink etc can't run up that. Would it be strong enough as an anti-dig skirt?

I'm a bit nervous about getting an electric fence to work. I guess I need 2-3 strands along the bottom to prevent climbing. If its strong enough for a fox, it might unfortunately damage a mink (the stream is on the outside of the run). Does anyone know the height the first strand should go? Does it definitely need one at the top as well?

I guess if I was able to build a roof on such a large area, this could be cheap chcken wire?

Many thanks again for the suggestions. It sounds almost as wild as Africa where you are Chris!
 
chickenfan said:
I'm a bit nervous about getting an electric fence to work. I guess I need 2-3 strands along the bottom to prevent climbing. If its strong enough for a fox, it might unfortunately damage a mink (the stream is on the outside of the run).
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The electric fence will not damage a mink. I have had neighbours' dogs (including a border terrier puppy) touch my fence, once they have experienced the shock they don't go near it again! You will need to keep the vegetation clear of the wires. I think the first wire should be about 5 or 6 inches above the ground.
 
Why would it be unfortunate to damage a mink? I thought they were an introduced pest species, and certainly would have no compunction about killing your chickens!
What length sides have you made from your 60m. roll of mesh? Total floor area in m.sq. will depend on how it's arranged, though it will be generous for 6 hens anyway. How is it fixed into the ground, and what sort of posts have you used? Will there be a dry sheltered area at all?
I would think security is even more important on an allotment, where you are presumably not able to oversee things as often as on your own property. You might consider getting 12 sq. metres covered and secure, for the winter, then gradually add more area as and when you feel it's safe and appropriate?
 
I am confused. Do you mean that your allotment is 60 metres long or have you made a run out of a 60 metre roll of mesh? In any case I agree with Marigold and think it would be advisable to secure a smaller area of the run in the first instance. Do other people keep chicken on the allotment? If so, perhaps you could ask them about their experiences on security (of equipment and livestock) and predators?
 
I'm with Marigold on the mink front. While I disagree with the fur trade, mink have had a terrible effect on the UK's wildlife since being let out of fur farms by well meaning but unthinking activists. They have decimated our water vole population and will eat a kingfisher's entire nest of chicks without a second thought. Not to mention what they'd do to your hens, given the chance...
 
Yes, I think I might be able to cover it with chicken wire, as its mostly long and thin. Its a nice sheltered plot and they have a dry area under the Eglu cube suitable for six birds. I should have thought a mink/stoat might get under a 5"electric wire? No-one else keeps birds there but I know it needs to be top security from foxes.
 
Your allotment and run must be 60 metres by at least 10 metres wide so I was going to suggest you make another run around the cube using 50 metres of electric poultry netting which you could move up and down your allotment when the ground gets muddy.

However, personally I think that 6 chicken cannot be expected to roost in a Cube and then have to wait until you are able to get to your allotment to let them out in the morning. It would have been a different matter if you had the Cube and chicken in your garden and could let them out first thing.

Have you thought that the other allotment holders may be concerned about the security of the allotments and that is the reason they do not keep poultry? If I could afford to spend £700 on an Eglu Cube I would not leave it on an allotment as it is portable and easy to steal. If you took up my suggestion of using a poultry fence and energiser there would be a total about £900 of portable poultry equipment on your allotment.
 
The Eglu cube without run is £400, so comparative with other durable houses, and it retains its value second hand. I chose it for the allotment because it is fully fox-proof. The allotment backs onto my garden so letting them out is not an issue, nor is theft, but the run will be padlocked for the security of the birds.

The run is c25m x 6m. I've taken advice from the Electric Fence Company (very helpful, as is their website and blog http://www.electricfencing.co.uk). They suggest using a 25-30mm board on the inside of the fence re small predators (this includes up to otter size) to cover the area below the wire, and using 3-4 lines of electric wire. The lowest line should be at fox 'nose height' and stand out from the fence so it can't get close to it, then the next one should be a few inches higher to allow for different sized foxes or one possibly standing on its hind legs. People generally put three at the bottom or 2 at the bottom and one at the top. She suggests two at the top, one of which is electrified, one of which is an 'earth'. Mink should be treated just the same as small foxes (though I'm not sure if they dig). She said the thing to watch out for is anything which could allow a fox to jump up eg an overhanging branch. On the other hand, it there is no easy 'way out', a fox won't jump in.

A very happy Christmas to all the wonderful people on this forum.
 
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