Mareks in vaccinated hens

Sue

Sue

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I need to ask for some help with my sick hen. She is still with us, but no one seems to know what is wrong with her. It has been mentioned that she MAY have Mareks as it is almost certain she has some king of neurological problem.

Her symptoms are as follows:

Both wings partially paralysed.
Both legs partially paralysed. She can stand and walk a few steps, but can't balance, so falls down again.
No problem with her neck.
Eating/drinking well in circumstances.
Poos ok considering not on a 'normal' chicken diet. There were a few small drops of darker blood in the poo one day, but that was all.
Not laying.
Comb red and healthy.
Eyes bright.
No discharge from eyes/nose.
She has been wormed with Flubenvet.

She is vaccinated against Mareks.
Age approx. 10 months.

My question is - has anyone lost any birds with Mareks when the birds were vaccinated against it. Does anyone know if it is possible for hens to have Mareks is they are vaccinated and finally does anyone recognise the combination of symptoms above.

She hasn't been PTS because she is not suffering and is eating and quite happy at the moment. My knowledgeable vet has said give her until Monday next week to see if there is any improvement as neurological symptoms can improve with time.

I can't find anything on the internet that matches these symptoms.
 
Sue said:
Both wings partially paralysed.
Both legs partially paralysed. She can stand and walk a few steps, but can't balance, so falls down again.
No problem with her neck.
Eating/drinking well in circumstances.
Poos ok considering not on a 'normal' chicken diet. There were a few small drops of darker blood in the poo one day, but that was all.
Not laying.



She hasn't been PTS because she is not suffering
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I'm sorry but I do not agree. You are not a chicken, you are a human. You are keeping this bird alive for the wrong reasons and I think it's cruel. She can not do what she was born to do, her quality of life is not as a chicken's should be. I think you need to stop humanising her and see her as a bird that is very ill and probably seriously stressed and depressed. But there is no way you could know this to be true or not because you are NOT A CHICKEN. Animals show very different signs of stress and pain that vary through out species. Chickens are not going to show the same sort of signs as what we human recognise.

I think it's very wrong you have had this poor bird going all this time.

She is not a doll, she is a hen who should be flapping round in the sun, laying eggs, clucking away and running round after bugs and worms.

This is my opinion and I have a right to have it. I will not continue this, i just wanted to make my opinion known and clear.

I recommend PTS for her to be at peace.
 
I agree with your knowledgeable vet, give her a few days to see what developes, after all we are always told to seek veterinary advice it would be stupid not to follow it!
Vaccines are not 100% guaranteed to work and some birds may slip through the net, so its not impossible for it to be Mareks.
 
Bertie & The Chooks said:
Sue said:
Both wings partially paralysed.
Both legs partially paralysed. She can stand and walk a few steps, but can't balance, so falls down again.
No problem with her neck.
Eating/drinking well in circumstances.
Poos ok considering not on a 'normal' chicken diet. There were a few small drops of darker blood in the poo one day, but that was all.
Not laying.



She hasn't been PTS because she is not suffering
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but I do not agree. You are not a chicken, you are a human. You are keeping this bird alive for the wrong reasons and I think it's cruel. She can not do what she was born to do, her quality of life is not as a chicken's should be. I think you need to stop humanising her and see her as a bird that is very ill and probably seriously stressed and depressed. But there is no way you could know this to be true or not because you are NOT A CHICKEN. Animals show very different signs of stress and pain that vary through out species. Chickens are not going to show the same sort of signs as what we human recognise.

I think it's very wrong you have had this poor bird going all this time.

She is not a doll, she is a hen who should be flapping round in the sun, laying eggs, clucking away and running round after bugs and worms.

This is my opinion and I have a right to have it. I will not continue this, i just wanted to make my opinion known and clear.

I recommend PTS for her to be at peace.
Click to expand...

I am now getting a little fed up with your posts and I really think it is about time you stopped posting to this forum unless you can come up with something constructive to say and I'm sure you can't! As for your 'recommendation', I'm afraid you are the last person on earth whose 'recommendations' I would listen too!! I asked certain questions of which you have not been able to give any answers too and instead went off on some sort of 'RANT' that no one wants to hear. As I said my VET has recommended letting her carry on as she is until Monday to see if she makes any improvements. Please can someone do us all a favour and evict her (for want of a better word) from this forum!
 
Sue I agree, your vet is far better placed to judge than any of us on this forum as they have had the opportunity to consult and assess whether the bird is uncomfortable or not, as well as obviously yourself!

In answer to your question, yes I am afraid even in vaccinated poultry it is possible to contract the virus. It does not however mean that is the case and usually the bird would have lost significant weight, although appearing to eat and drink well. Stools may be affected, with greenish diarrhoea, or watery as the kidneys can be involved. A definitive diagnosis would however require bloodwork.
 
Thanks for your useful reply Foxy. She hasn't lost any weight at all and is actually a very good weight. Her poos are slightly green, but that is because she is consuming quite a lot of greens at the moment. They are not runny (except for the odd one). She is not consuming enough grit so there is some undigested food amongst them. Her symptoms have completely stumped two experienced vets at the moment, which is why, in the absence of a diagnosis, they have suggested not treating her with anything, but just watching and waiting to see if there is any improvement. I have to say that she is able to get up a bit better today. Not expecting any miracles though, so we'll just so how she goes.
 
Of course there is the possibility that it is Lymphoid Lucosis and not Mareks. This would explain why a Mareks innoculation doesn't work. The two are easily confused, even by a vet. Ours was treated with anti-inflammatory which reduced the size of her tumour and relieved the symptoms for a while. Hopefully it will be neither.
 
Hi Chris, that is interesting. I will do some research on Lymphoid Lucosis and see if the symptoms match. I'm no expert, but somehow I don't think it is Mareks, which is why I am trying to find another explanation. She isn't improving or deteriorating, which in itself it a bit odd.
 
Sue,

I've lost 2 birds to Maraks (supposed to have been vaccinated) and 1 to either Lymphoid Lucosis or Mareks - still awaiting autopsy.
My experience says that birds with the below type of symptoms are possably those more likely to have the diseases.

- Really underweight to the point of weighing nothing at all.
- poos either normal or small and greeny or yellowy
- Eating like a horse, but not gaining weight
- egg laying non existant or lacking
- Comb shrivled and pale
- lack of energy and slow loss of pecking order

All my birds have seemed healthy apart from the lack of weight and then slowly deteriorated over a period of 2 to 3 weeks to a point where 2 have taken themselves off to the nestbox and faded away quietly, or the other one died with one foot and opposite wing at full stretch and had a series of horrible convultions for about an hour (I will never forgive myself for not knowing how to put her out of her misery :( )
However, both diseases seem to hinge around tumours and it could be that your bird has one in brain or elsewhere that is causing the symptoms. I know Bertie is blunt and not helping, but I would agree that if she seems to be suffering in any way, it may get worse, so at least (due to my sleepless nights remembering horrible traumas) make sure you know how to help her if she does need it.

I am so desperately keeping my fingers crossed for her :)
 
Thanks BabyBantam for your post. She's actually not suffering at all. She's bright, talking and eating very well! My vet has confirmed that she's happy and he doesn't know her. The thing is she doesn't have any of the symptoms you've listed! She's a very good weight, perfect in fact - not too fat and not too thin. Her comb and wattles are bright red and not shrivelled at all. Her eyes are bright and she's very alert. Her feathers are gleaming! Her 'only' problem is that her legs won't work properly. Her poos are also normal for the diet she is eating at the moment. She hasn't shown any deterioration for a week now. She's being watched very closely and I can assure you that none of my animals are allowed to suffer for the sake of me wanting to keep them alive. I certainly don't 'humanise' my animals as someone suggested, but I always give them a chance to recover - better alive than dead if at all possible is my motoI know very well, from years of experience with animals, when to call it a day.
 
Are you picking her up and moving/ stretching her legs Sue? I ask because she needs to keep the capability of full movement in them. I don't know how much walking she does at the moment.
 
Yes Chris I am picking her up and balancing her on her legs with me supporting her so she doesn't fall over. She had a warm bath this afternoon as well. Obviously with spending so much time lying down her bottom feathers are getting a bit mucky. I did think about making some sort of sling for her and tying it to the top of the wire cage so that her legs wouldn't be underneath her all the time. Just enough to support her, but putting a little weight on her legs. At least then she could move them around. Don't know whether this is a good idea though or not. What do you think?
 
Hi Sue, I am trying to remember the history of your flock, when did you obtain this particular hen, and the rest of your flock?
 
Hi Sue. There is a picture/sketch of a chicken sling in the book Storey's guide to Raising Chickens. In that case it's for a broken leg. It has a drinker and feeder at the front (and probably has a mess behind), keeps its feet off the floor and isn't mobile. Done with a piece of sacking with two holes in for the legs and a rigid base. Would be difficult to make it mobile as it is going to be so heavy. Might be better with a baby walker type arrangement so some weight goes onto the legs but not too much. You're in new territory here Sue. I think you'd be better spending the sling building time just exercising her to be honest. I considered this with Boris 1, when he had total left leg paralysis, but decided to spend the time on physio instead.
 
In reply to Chris, I have no idea where I would start with a baby walker for chickens Chris!!! I think I will do as you suggest and just do the physio 3 times a day or more when I can. I do have a harness that I used with my elderly golden retriever a few years ago when he had trouble getting up and walking up and down steps, but I don't think it would fit Tilly!! :roll:

In reply to your question Foxy. I had 6 hens to start with last March from a very big breeder of pure poultry in Dorset. He advertises in all the poultry mags. I then lost the Barnevelder after a couple of months which was completely unexpected as she was fine the previous day, went to bed as normal and was dead in the house the next morning! Then I had the problems with Potty Dotty bullying the Buff Sussex and after a long time of struggling with this and trying to decide what to do, we built a new run behind the original one and bought a Green Frog house. Potty Dotty and the top bird, the Crested Cream Legbar were moved into this run together and so far live happily every after! (Apart from Dotty going broody every 5 minutes)

That left only 3 hens in the house/run meant for 6-8, so I decided to buy two new hens to introduce. This was Tilly the sick Buff Sussex and her friend Phoebe the Red Sussex. These were both purchased in September last year from a smaller breeder in Somerset (also of pure breeds). This meant there were 5 birds now living together and the two others in the separate house/run.

Sorry that's so long winded and hope it makes sense!
 
Sue said:
Thanks BabyBantam for your post. She's actually not suffering at all. She's bright, talking and eating very well! My vet has confirmed that she's happy and he doesn't know her. The thing is she doesn't have any of the symptoms you've listed! She's a very good weight, perfect in fact - not too fat and not too thin. Her comb and wattles are bright red and not shrivelled at all. Her eyes are bright and she's very alert. Her feathers are gleaming! Her 'only' problem is that her legs won't work properly. Her poos are also normal for the diet she is eating at the moment. She hasn't shown any deterioration for a week now. She's being watched very closely and I can assure you that none of my animals are allowed to suffer for the sake of me wanting to keep them alive. I certainly don't 'humanise' my animals as someone suggested, but I always give them a chance to recover - better alive than dead if at all possible is my motoI know very well, from years of experience with animals, when to call it a day.
Click to expand...

I totally agree that these symptoms don't sound much like my birds, so happily able to say - If ChrisMahons lovely Daffodil is anything to go by, you could have her taking up residence in your bedroom in a box of straw :D
 
Unfortunately I have to let you know that Tilly is no longer with us. She deteriorated overnight and was PTS early this morning. A PM is being carried out today so I will report back when I have the results. Although I was never very hopeful that she would make it, it seems that she had a chance and that was given to her. It is very quiet in the run now as she was always talking non stop!
 
Really sorry to hear that Sue. Terrible news, but you did absolutely everything you could for her, including making a very hard decision in her best interests at the end.
 
Aww, so sorry for you, its always sad when we lose one but awful when its a favourite.
 
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