Is mycoplasma carried in birds which don't become ill?

chickenfan

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I recently bought in two week-old chicks. I noticed one wasn't well when I got home and the breeder has had mycoplasma in her flock. The other chick has remained well. Is this likely to carry mycoplasma? I have treated both chicks with Tylan.
 
I meant to thank Tim Daniels for his excellent and very helpful article on mycoplasma. I realise the poorly chick will carry mycoplasma and that I can't keep it, but I'm wondering whether the healthy chick might also carry it.
 
Yes that's certainly possible. Its your decision of course, but if you keep it, it might introduce Myco to your flock, with very longstanding consequences. Is it worth the risk to you?
 
My understanding is that an exposed bird may not show signs of illness, but will have the virus and be a carrier Chickenfan. Ultimately it will spread to all flocks. Question is how fast and is it worth exposing your flock now and breeding from the natural survivors? Food for thought perhaps?
 
Thank you Marigold and Chris. I still have the two chicks I bought in (in isolation) and the poorly one is slowly recovering but remains stunted. My vet has quoted me £295(!) for doing a post mortem on the one that was ill. I hate to have to kill the one that is bright and well unless it was completely necessary, but it sounds as though this is the case. The only other option would be to leave them on the doorstep of the breeder on a warm day. I really don't want mycoplasma in my flock and breeding birds.
 
I have finally managed to register with a Poultry Specialist Vet some distance away. He immediately confirmed to me that if the chicks have been exposed to mycoplasma they will carry it for life even if they never had any symptoms. If they show clinical signs they are much more infectious, meaning I should now medicate my whole flock even if I've kept them isolated and been careful. Mycoplasma lives for 4 days on clothing. He advises never to buy in unless you know the history of the farm/breeder. Even if you buy in eggs, the chicks that hatch carry mycoplasma if the parents have it. I am taking the chick that was ill to him for post-mortem (cost £15). At least then I will know what I'm dealing with.
 
The chick that was ill has blood-tested negative for mycoplasma, which I'm very pleased about.
 
She said the most common problem is an yolk sac problem/infection. The poorly chick is moderately OK now, but I'm not convinced it hasn't had mycoplasma as the area around its eyes seems swollen. So I'm speaking the the vet again tomorrow.
 
Apparently the blood test on a very young bird is unreliable and I should have done a swab DNA as well. So after taking so much trouble and making a 90-mile round trip to a poultry specialist vet, it turns out the information I was given that I could safely relax on the mycoplasma front isn't right, according to the main vet in the practice.
 
That's extremely annoying for you Chickenfan. So you are effectively back where you started -not knowing if those two are carrying Myco.
 
Thankyou Chris. And I put the chicks in the garden (on their own) because the junior vet was sure the blood test was 100% reliable. I very much hope as they were recently treated with antibiotics, there will be a low risk of infection. I've now spoken again to the main vet, who tells me the chicks may not yet have developed antibodies and the blood test is only reliable after 6 weeks old. The DNA swab is reliable but is more expensive and it takes a week to get the results. He tells me one way to reduce the risk of mycoplasma is to treat suspected birds with Tylan every month. There is apparently no egg withdrawal on Tylan. If new birds are isolated for two weeks and show no signs of illness, they are generally safe to mix with a flock, but this is only proven if the flock then remains healthy. If they go down with eye bubbles and streaming colds after 4 days, it is likely to be mycoplasma.

Re mycoplasma, the danger is that it is a virulent, highly infectious bug. Mycoplasma on its own is innocuous, like a common cold. On its own it is not a killer. However in combination with e-coli or infectious bronchitis, it becomes a major issue and kills. Infectious bronchitis is extremely common. When mycoplasma is in a breeding flock, offspring are not healthy and fertility is poor. It is carried within the egg, so he advises only buying from one source that you know well, and know the history of their birds, or from reliable breeders who blood test for mycoplasma. It is dangerous buying eggs from multiple sources as each parent flock builds a resistance to different bugs. He says its like us going to Spain for a holiday and not being resistant to new bugs there. It is always best to keep a closed flock which is happy with its own bugs and passes on a resistance to these.

It seems most backyard flocks don't have mycoplasma. He is not sure what percentage do - maybe around 25%. If a flock has had it they will eventually show few symptoms but will remain positive and carriers. But anyone who is breeding intensively and expanding their birds quickly, who has poor hygiene, or who gives their birds less than 1 square meter per bird (which he says a lot of backyard breeders do), is more or less certain to have it. Mycoplasma is extremely common in commercial birds because of the number of eggs they produce, lack of space, stress and conditions, so many commercial farms are treating with tylan and other drugs on a regular basis to keep their birds free of disease signs. Even with the three vaccines they give commercial birds for mycoplasma including the reliable live eye drop, if they are groups of thousands they can still get it. Poor abused things.

Re my own chicks, sadly I've arranged to cull them this afternoon. I am away next week so its difficult to wait for another test and I just don't want the risk of having chicks from a mycoplasma postive breeder - so all back to the original advice you gave me. But I have perhaps found a knowledgeable vet in the process (Stuart Young in Cullompton) who tells me he imports a huge range of specialist medication for poultry. And I'm very grateful to Marigold for the recommendation of Chalk Hill Poultry.
 
A very interesting post indeed Chickenfan. It is good to get this quality of information onto the forum. Ours have had IB -just the immunisation strain though. I have often wondered if they carry Myco, but ones we have sold or rehomed have never caused any health problems. So many coop and run manufacturers say half a square metre is OK -which is terrible. ILT gives swelling and bubbles around the eyes as well.

How is the original single little chick now? The one that has indirectly caused all this stress. Hope it is a pullet!
 
Thank you again, Chris. My little Marans girl is lovely and now has two Barnevelder companions from a small hobby breeder - so I did take a small risk again. She liked them straight away. I left the other chicks in a box with food and water outside the breeder's house. Now of course I am very worried about them as she hasn't contacted me, so I will probably pop back tomorrow if I can't get through. It is likely they were not carriers as they had no respiratory symptoms, but I just couldn't be sure.

There are apparently hundreds of varieties of IB and they are changing all the time. Did you manage to vaccinate for this at birth?
 
Ours caught IB from two new hybrids Chickenfan. So it was the immunisation strain, which is the weakest variety of IB but gives immunisation against the whole IB group, which as you say has hundreds of varieties. It is given in the drinking water I think, when they are a few weeks old. But I have also heard that initially, when live viruses were first used, they sprayed it in water as a mist into the coop so they all breathed it in and caught it.
 
The IB doesn't that I notice, although we have two with mysterious 'chestiness' which isn't dust, black mould or any infection. Perhaps it's the heat or an allergy? The air is very dry here because we are 2 hrs from the coast, so dust could be a problem. But the ILT did for years. I was told it could flare up for two years, but I think the effects are permanently reoccurring. Anyway they are all OK now. When the ILT flares up it is due to another problem, which means the first thing they do is stop eating because their throat is sore.

Quite pleased at the moment because our Buff Orpington hen with the gizzard impaction appears to be well on the way to full recovery. Taken a month and she has lost half her bodyweight, but the impaction has gone, she's eaten grit and her gizzard is now grinding. My fault -far too late with worming. Evidence suggests she ate a cherry stone which wouldn't pass through the worms and the whole system backed up!! She then ate grass to try and clear it and that made it worse. The breakthrough came after we couldn't clear the resulting sour crop and tried sucking the rancid stuff out. She fought so much that she must have dislodged the blockage a bit. Progressively with food balls and water and keeping her moving about it cleared -long job and a fine balance between sour crop, and energy availability.

I'm buying some Nettex Nuitrdrops to see if that will help us with future sickies -they are all getting rather old.
 
Dear Marigold,

I am feeling absolutely wretched about the chicks left with the Breeder. I went back early next morning. The box was still there without my note and without the chicks. I don't know what happened to them, but it seems very unlikely she would have kept them. She is not replying to messages or phone calls. It wasn't the right thing to do to take them back anyway. I should have taken them for the DNA test, but I am away for three days from tomorrow and didn't know how to arrange the biosecurity whilst I am away until the test results come back. I am feeling so guilty and sad about those chicks.
 
Don't feel bad about it. The whole thing was a sort of tangled situation that got worse as it developed, didn't it, through your very good intentions, and you certainly did all you could for them, their health problems weren't caused by your care. I really don't think there was any need for you to try to arrange further expensive DNA testing for two chicks that you hadn't bred yourself, and probably your flock would have been better off without them whatever the outcome. Maybe, on reflection, you might come to feel that culling them as soon as problems became apparent would have been the best course, but I can understand how difficult this must have been to contemplate.

Anyway, enjoy a well-earned break, and after a while it will wash through and you'll be able to put it down to hard-won experience. I've got a whole folder full of mental incidents in that category, that I try not to think about too often!
 

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