I've been looking for some new pekins recently and am quite horrified by the conditions some people keep them in. Some I have seen have been crowded into small, dark pens, probably never cleaned out, with filthy (and often empty) food and water containers. I know it's not a good time of year, being so wet, and I am teased for keeping mine in 5 star luxury, but it is quite disturbing. There is a temptation to 'rescue' a few but I am concerned about bringing in disease. The difficult thing is knowing how to express my concerns without appearing rude, especially since I am hardly an expert.
Horrible living conditions
- Thread starter elmdene
- Start date
Don't worry about being rude, tell the owners why you are not buying their birds in no uncertain terms. It doesn't matter what they think of you, as you won't ever be going back!
Then, if you are badly upset by the way they are being kept, repORT the poultry keeper to the RSPCA. Any animal has the right to clean living conditions, food, water and light. And if this person is offering birds for sale as healthy stock, perhaps to people less knowledgable than you, that's fraudulent. I expect they would have a hard time getting a refund if and when the birds became sick after the stress of moving to a new home, however much better it was.
Then, if you are badly upset by the way they are being kept, repORT the poultry keeper to the RSPCA. Any animal has the right to clean living conditions, food, water and light. And if this person is offering birds for sale as healthy stock, perhaps to people less knowledgable than you, that's fraudulent. I expect they would have a hard time getting a refund if and when the birds became sick after the stress of moving to a new home, however much better it was.
chrismahon
Well-known member
I've seen the same as you Elmdene, too many times. But we can't put the world to rights and have to be content with looking after our own the best we can. Problem is people put cash before welfare and it isn't confined to chickens. The Commercial farming practices can be pretty awful as standard and if they want to make any profit they can't afford to improve things.
I wouldn't have thought Pekins were likely to be in a commercial setup, Chris. Much more likely to be a backyard breeder who neglects his birds and wants a quick buck for them. If nobody speaks out, no pressure at all can be brought to bear to help the poor birds. The problem comes, as with puppy farming, when people buy poor stock out of pity, the 'rescue impulse," and then the breeder rapidly re-stocks with more of the same.
chrismahon
Well-known member
Sorry, I didn't make myself very clear Marigold. What I was trying to say was that backyard breeders, no matter how bad they seem, still keep their poultry in better conditions than the Commercial keepers. Anyone keeping more than 50 chickens must register with Defra's local Animal Welfare department. They will inspect the premises, initially to establish a risk category, then at a regular frequency. We were the lowest at 'C' so a visit every 3 years I think. But they will only measure standards against Commercial practice and we have all seen the condition of caged layers.
BabyBantam
Member
Only ever buy from someone who loves their birds. You MUST do this to stop the heartache of bringing in even the slightest chance of disease. I know!
Where are you based, I'm sure there are people on the forum who can recommend a breeder. ALWAYS better to travel a little further and get a good quality bird who will bring you joy over many years than suffer the results of bad breeding and neglect. In the end, only you will suffer, very like coping with a puppy farmed dog.
Where are you based, I'm sure there are people on the forum who can recommend a breeder. ALWAYS better to travel a little further and get a good quality bird who will bring you joy over many years than suffer the results of bad breeding and neglect. In the end, only you will suffer, very like coping with a puppy farmed dog.
I have just got two girls yesterday from someone who was recommended to me (some distance away I might add) and who certainly seemed to love their birds and showed me all the breeding pairs first so I knew where they'd come from. The two I got were hatched last summer and have been raised indoors in a stable with straw on the floor so have not yet been outside or eaten grass. They were in with quite a few other chickens but certainly not crowded and lots of natural light. However, one of them deposited a poo yesterday afternoon with quite a bit of intestinal lining in it. I checked this morning and the poo under the perch was all fine but there was another with intestinal lining on the ramp. I have looked at the poo-checker photo link on one of the recent threads in the health section and it says this is normal, although there was also mention in the thread of it being underlying cocci? I spoke to the breeder this morning and she said nothing to worry about but maybe I should worm them (before she had said this wasn't necessary since they'd not been outside yet) and it should get better. They both seem well and happy but should I be concerned? They are in their own coop at the moment, not with my other two yet.
chrismahon
Well-known member
Sounds a bit odd Elmdene but some of ours have been shedding as well and they are coming up to lay, so perhaps the two are linked? I don't see cocci being involved as they poo just blood and guts. Worming perhaps whilst they are in quarantine as it will be simple. Just watch how you introduce them to grass. My recent experience with impacted crops has perhaps explained some previously unexplained deaths. The danger is they gorge themselves on grass, particularly long grass.
Most of their poos are normal - just the odd one with intestinal gunk in it. Touch wood - I think it's getting better. The breeder suggested it could be change of diet but the first one was almost as soon as I put them in the new coop. They are going bonkers for the grass but it's very short where they are so hopefully they will be ok? It's either grass or no grass at all so they will have to get used to it sometime I guess. Gave them some grit today and they just chucked the whole lot out of the container so I'm not sure they know what to do with it yet! I am starting worming both the newbies and my existing two tomorrow prior to putting them in together. It's so lovely - today they started to eat out of my hand, rather cautiously initially but quickly became quite at ease with me being around. Myrtle is very jealous!
And I will certainly drop a note back to at least one of the other potential suppliers I went to, to let them know why I decided to go elsewhere.
And I will certainly drop a note back to at least one of the other potential suppliers I went to, to let them know why I decided to go elsewhere.
Moving home is always very traumatic for chickens, however lovely the new place is, and minor digestive upsets are common, especially if there is also a change of feed. Like any animal, including us, stress and new routines and foods often affect the gut, but usually settle down in time. I think worming all your birds during the quarantine period is a very good idea, so that afterwards they are all in synch. on future occasions and also the new ones are less likely to be picking up worms from the older birds. I don't know if there were any worms in the breeder's rearing shed, but if it had an earth floor I would imagine it would be possible for worm eggs from the droppings of previous chickens to survive and wait their time until a new host came along. Certainly if the litter was clean there would be less danger of infestation than if the birds had been out on pasture previously used by the flock.
Anyway, so long as the birds haven't got too many worms, they are easy to deal with. A possible problem I've found with dosing new birds is that it sometimes takes them a few days or up to a couple of weeks to settle well enough to eat a normal amount of food. Consequently if you start worming straight away, they may not take in enough Flubenvet to do the job properly. Also, if they've not been used to grass they won't miss it, and I would advise confining them until they've had their wormer for the week, as otherwise they will stuff their crops with grass and again they won't get the proper dose.
Anyway, so long as the birds haven't got too many worms, they are easy to deal with. A possible problem I've found with dosing new birds is that it sometimes takes them a few days or up to a couple of weeks to settle well enough to eat a normal amount of food. Consequently if you start worming straight away, they may not take in enough Flubenvet to do the job properly. Also, if they've not been used to grass they won't miss it, and I would advise confining them until they've had their wormer for the week, as otherwise they will stuff their crops with grass and again they won't get the proper dose.
BabyBantam
Member
Are they coming into lay? Do they have small pink combs, or bigger red ones? Mine have been shedding "red bits" recently, but one has just started laying and another showing all signs of doing so soon. It may be they are just having the chicken equiv. of a period (sorry). I'd advise the same as marigold and worm, keep an eye on them and not worry too much. If they are eating out of your hand, they can't be too unhappy with you and gives you the chance to watch them closely.
Poo comes in the most amazing varietys and my daughter ( for one ) rolls her eyes at the amount of info and degree of discussion that goes on in our house about it.
Poo comes in the most amazing varietys and my daughter ( for one ) rolls her eyes at the amount of info and degree of discussion that goes on in our house about it.
Yes good point about the grass - it did cross my mind this morning that they were eating lots of grass as well as the pellets, but I don't think they have lost their appetites since they arrived. My only other alternative to the grass is to put their ark on concrete which seems a bit mean, especially as its going to be cold this week but this may be the best thing for them? I've given them a container dust bath this morning so they can sit in that, although I'm in two minds as they are white and I dread to think what they will look like after a dust bath!! One of them is sneezing very occasionally too - yet another thing to worry about!! However they do seem quite happy and very inquisitive. I even think they may have mastered the art of going up and down the ramp by tonight as one of them keeps jumping on and off it just to show off.
Their combs are somewhere between pink and red I'd say, so hopefully we will get some eggs soon. And yes - I too am an avid chicken poo inspector!
Thanks for all the advice - much appreciated as always.
Their combs are somewhere between pink and red I'd say, so hopefully we will get some eggs soon. And yes - I too am an avid chicken poo inspector!
Thanks for all the advice - much appreciated as always.
chrismahon
Well-known member
As an avid Chicken Poo Inspector as well I can tell you ours oldies are coming into lay and are eating tons of grass at the moment Elmdene. Not sure why? I asked Jemima (Buff Laced Wyandotte) and she just looked at me as if I was stupid or something!
We have one Orpington with a swollen face on one side and we think she has got too inquisitive with the Processionary Caterpillars -they shed their poisoned spines if anyone gets close. In Britanny they shoot the nests out of the Pine trees because of the injuries to dogs and humans.
We have one Orpington with a swollen face on one side and we think she has got too inquisitive with the Processionary Caterpillars -they shed their poisoned spines if anyone gets close. In Britanny they shoot the nests out of the Pine trees because of the injuries to dogs and humans.
Poor thing - lucky she didn't eat the caterpillar.
Have thought about it and to make sure they eat the max amount of treated pellets, it's either a case of leaving the ark where it is on the (short) grass or putting it on on cold, damp, concrete (no indoor space unfortunately) with possibly some straw down to make it a bit more comfortable and easier to clean. I've never used straw because of potential health risks but that's what they were on before, albeit in a nice dry stable. The alternative is hay, which I sometimes used to use when it was very cold, but then my chickens started eating it which didn't seem a good idea as it's quite long. I'm wondering now whether to leave them on grass after all - they seem to eat the pellets as well as well as the grass.
Have thought about it and to make sure they eat the max amount of treated pellets, it's either a case of leaving the ark where it is on the (short) grass or putting it on on cold, damp, concrete (no indoor space unfortunately) with possibly some straw down to make it a bit more comfortable and easier to clean. I've never used straw because of potential health risks but that's what they were on before, albeit in a nice dry stable. The alternative is hay, which I sometimes used to use when it was very cold, but then my chickens started eating it which didn't seem a good idea as it's quite long. I'm wondering now whether to leave them on grass after all - they seem to eat the pellets as well as well as the grass.
BabyBantam
Member
If the grass is short and they are already on it, I'd leave them there otherwise you're at risk of stress on top of stress with all the moves. Let them settle for a bit then decide on weather conditions. Concrete is very cold and as long as they are not on a bog...
My lot are hoovering up grass too. Interesting green poo this morning. Dogs eaten a hole in the lawn too, so it might be the fresh green is too tasty to miss out on.
My lot are hoovering up grass too. Interesting green poo this morning. Dogs eaten a hole in the lawn too, so it might be the fresh green is too tasty to miss out on.
So I decided to leave them on the grass, especially as this will be the long term terrain, but attached the extension run this afternoon, with some lovely straw at the covered end for them to snuggle up in, and their dustbath. They seemed to like it for the first 10 minutes and then it all got a bit much for them so they went up to bed! Hopefully they will appreciate my efforts in the morning when they are feeling more adventurous.
