Hens in the garden

[daveyb]

Hi

I am new to this forum but have joined as I am contemplating getting some chucks.

I live in a semi -detatched house and although the deeds to the house indicate that no poultry are allowed, I have been checking the internet and other forums and it appears that the clause within the deeds is not enforceable. I have also spoken to our local counciller and she did not seem to show any concerns about it other than advising that maybe chat to the neighbours. I have done so and they seem OK but understandably their only concern is noise and not being woken up at 5am.

I intend to buy a house/run and have 3 hens (no cockerel) which will be given supervised access to the main garden (20' x 30') fully enclosed by a 6' high panel fence.

I have tried checking out websites and even checked out video footage on You Tube to try and find suitable breeds that are quiet, but the whole subject at the moment seems to be a complete minefield and after speaking to the neighbours I don't want to upset them straight away.

In your experience can anyone give me any advice as to what breeds are quiet breeds and give an idea of potential egg yields for each breed.

Many thanks

DaveyB

 

[Sue]

Hello daveyb and welcome to the forum.

As long as you're not having a male bird, you don't need to worry about noise. Hens don't really make much noise, apart to announce when they have laid an egg and some like to announce this louder than others, but that is down to the individual bird rather than the breed and will only last for a minute or so anyway! With only 3 hens you won't need to worry about noise. If I were you I would have a look on the internet at different breeds and decide which appeal to you, whether you want pure breeds or hybrids. Also consider how many eggs you want them to produce for you as different breeds vary quite a bit in this respect. Also the size of the bird/eggs - do you want bantams with their smaller eggs or do you want larger birds? Do you want three birds of different breeds or are you happy to have three the same? The most important thing to remember is that it will be easier for you if you purchase all the birds from one place at the same time and preferably birds who have been living together. Also make sure you get them from a reputable breeder. You will get lots of advice on this forum, so don't be afraid to ask lots of questions.

 

[chrismahon]

Welcome to the forum Daveyb. There is a huge choice out there but if your primary concern is quiet, which it probably needs to be, I can say from our breeds :-

Bluebell hybrid, very quiet at all times, even before and after laying.
Orpingtons, generally quiet but some are rather noisy on the way to lay.
Wyandottes, very noisy on occasion for no apparent reason.
Cream Legbars, average.
Transylvanian Naked Necks, very quiet so far (but flighty, so alarm easily)
Brown English Leghorn Bantams -very quiet (but flighty)
Rhode Island Red Pedigree -noisiest hen we have ever had, constant racket.
Rhode Island Red Hybrid -quite noisy all the time.

If anything spooks them they will all alarm call. That's a warning to the rest of the flock and is inherent in chickens. So cats jumping into the garden or a Magpie landing -alarm!

If you tell me exactly what the clause says in your Title document I should be able to tell you if it is enforceable. I took a breach of covenant through the system right to appeal in the High Court, so have far more experience of points of law than any solicitor- they deal with legal procedure. To get an even better idea of enforcability you will need to employ a solicitor to employ a barrister to research it -I'm free, they are not!

 

[daveyb]

If you tell me exactly what the clause says in your Title document I should be able to tell you if it is enforceable. I took a breach of covenant through the system right to appeal in the High Court, so have far more experience of points of law than any solicitor- they deal with legal procedure. To get an even better idea of enforcability you will need to employ a solicitor to employ a barrister to research it -I'm free, they are not!

Many thanks for advice re: deeds. Chrismahon - I will need to check out fully once we get the deeds back from the solicators as they have them at the moment as we were in the process of trying to sell our house, but have given it up as a bad lot.

 

[BabyBantam]

Noise and chickens as stated is individual to the bird - all chickens will make a set of loud calls when warning the flock (will they need to get used to seeing cats passing through the garden) and you will also find they tend to 'shout' at you in the summer mornings if you leave it too long before letting them out.
I'd advise you think about what time you're happy to get up in the mornings, and if Sunday at 06.00 is a bit scary (and you can afford one), think about getting an automatic 'pop' hole opener. This will stop early morning frustration for the girls and means you can stay in bed a little longer.
Also and baring in mind your deeds, I'd make sure your garden is properly secure before letting the chooks roam. I had to rescue one of my lot out of next doors garden yesterday, as she managed to dig herself under the fence - very surprised neighbour when she tapped on the patio doors!!!

 

[Marigold]

A good way to go about avoiding a lot of the problems is to make a secure run with a freestanding coop in it. Then your hens are safe from predators and you will not need to shut the pophole at all unless the weather is really really cold and windy (and certainly never during the time of the year when light mornings make the hens restless to get up very early.) Hens need a minimum of 2 square metres of run space per bird, more is better as if too crowded they get stressed and may start fighting or feather-pecking, also the run gets very messy if too small. If you buy one of those coops with a run attached, the run will inevitably be too small for the hens, so it's best to make a separate run with a coop in it. You can still let them out when you want, but when you are not there you will know they are safe. You need to make provision for shelter in the run from wind and rain, and shade in summer, so a covered area over part of the run is a good idea, also getting a coop which is up on legs so the hens can get underneath and dustbathe is useful, less hard on the back when cleaning it out, and you won't get rats nesting unnoticed under it.

 

[daveyb]

Noise and chickens as stated is individual to the bird - all chickens will make a set of loud calls when warning the flock (will they need to get used to seeing cats passing through the garden) and you will also find they tend to 'shout' at you in the summer mornings if you leave it too long before letting them out.
I'd advise you think about what time you're happy to get up in the mornings, and if Sunday at 06.00 is a bit scary (and you can afford one), think about getting an automatic 'pop' hole opener. This will stop early morning frustration for the girls and means you can stay in bed a little longer.
Also and baring in mind your deeds, I'd make sure your garden is properly secure before letting the chooks roam. I had to rescue one of my lot out of next doors garden yesterday, as she managed to dig herself under the fence - very surprised neighbour when she tapped on the patio doors!!!

No automatic opener required as my wife and I get up at 3.30am each morning when working and even on days off are normally up by 6am/

 

[BabyBantam]

No automatic opener required as my wife and I get up at 3.30am each morning when working and even on days off are normally up by 6am/

Now I'm scared 07

 

[daveyb]

If you tell me exactly what the clause says in your Title document I should be able to tell you if it is enforceable. I took a breach of covenant through the system right to appeal in the High Court, so have far more experience of points of law than any solicitor- they deal with legal procedure. To get an even better idea of enforcability you will need to employ a solicitor to employ a barrister to research it -I'm free, they are not!

Hi Chris
The title deeds quote - Not to keep pigeons or poultry or any animal except domestic pets dogs cats or cage birds in or upon the property hereby conveyed or any part thereof.

Any advice much appreciated.

DaveyB

 

[Marigold]

If you made an enclosed run ('Aviary') as I suggested, could you claim they were both 'domestic pets' and 'caged birds' and thus permissable under the terms of the lease?

 

[chrismahon]

Who is the Covenant beneficiary? In other words who in law is entited to enforce it if breached? Who is it protecting DaveyB? Is it leasehold or freehold property?

As Marigold says, you could also argue they are pets and caged (in a run). Also that they are less intrusive than cats or dogs on the neighbourhood. But you don't want to go there. There are no winners and losers in civil actions, just varying degrees of financial loss.

 

[daveyb]

Chris, unfortunately I am not 100% au fait with legal jargon, but our property is freehold.

Other sites have also indicated the Allotment Act 1950 also protects you because if you grow your own veg you can imply that you have an allotment on the grounds of your property and so protected by the following clause (clause 12):

12 Abolition of contractual restrictions on keeping hens and rabbits.

(1) Notwithstanding any provision to the contrary in any lease or tenancy or in any covenant, contract or undertaking relating to the use to be made of any land, it shall be lawful for the occupier of any land to keep, otherwise than by way of trade or business, hens or rabbits in any place on the land and to erect or place and maintain such buildings or structures on the land as reasonably necessary for that purpose:

Provided that nothing in this subsection shall authorise any hens or rabbits to be kept in such a place or in such a manner as to be prejudicial to health or a nuisance or affect the operation of any enactment.

Basically the neighbours have agreed in principle, but if noise really became an issue (which I don't think it will) we would re home which would be an option as many of my work colleagues could take them if it came to it.

DaveyB

 

[chrismahon]

But without anyone to enforce the Covenant it is worthless DaveyB. Was it in favour of the seller (vendor), who had an Estate of houses to sell and didn't want new buyers put off ? It should say on the Land Registry Title who is the beneficiary of the Covenant. If your property is not registered and had deeds only it will be the vendor. Which means you've lived there over 14 years.

The Allotment Act would only appy if you rented your garden as an allotment to someone else and it would have to be registered with the Council as such. Planning Permission may be required for change of use?

 

[Marigold]

I would just get on and instal a nice run, get your hens, and when they start to lay, give the neighbours some proper eggs and get them on side and interested. Then, when you want to go on holiday, they'll enjoy looking after them and will want to get some of their own as well. If you have spoken to the neighbours and they are OK with the idea, and you don't have a landlord or a housing association on your back, who is going to cause trouble? and if there was a problem, at the worst you could rehome the hens as you say.