Help.......

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Oh Lydia, what a sad situation you were in but you did the right thing. Sometimes its hard to do the right thing. At least someone with kindness looked after him in the end.

Reading this post has really made me think about my cockerel. I think he is an Asian Hardfeather breed but not many pictures out there. I've done a bit of research & worked out where the eggs came from (long trail backwards not easy) but came to a stop due to the weather,Christmas, etc & will try again next week.

If he is one of these breeds it would account for a few (odd) things about him & I'm now so worried I've not given him the best start in life. I can't keep him but don't want to cull him either & have been trying to find out exactly what breed he is so that I can possibly re-home him (I do have a possible new home) Despite best efforts to intigrate him my chooks just attack him so he is kept in a small run on his own.

After reading your experience & the info on these birds I just hope he'll not be also adversly affected. Can you give me any more info on Asian Hard Feather breeds? Info not easy to find.

Thanks
 
Hi Lucylou,it was rotten luck for Kaz(not sure why I named him,he was with me for less than 24hrs)but I do know exactly what you mean about the Asian Hardfeather breeds,there seems to be very little info on them available.
As I understand it,Asian Hardfeathers are any breed from the eastern countries that where or could be used for cockfighting.The english game birds do not come into these categories only because they are English,not from eastern origin.
They usually have an upright stance,are very muscular,sort of Arnie Shwauztachook and if don't start a fight will usually end one.Some are very feisty though,including the hens.
They have very small combs and wattles,so when fighting the opponeant bird cant attack the combs, and often have bald area's,that the feathers don't seem to grow as well.Usually down the breast,and often the neck.
Their necks are long,designed so they can do damage with out having to get too close,and their heads are definitely a different shape.A sort of angled wedge.
As to what breeds Asian Hardfeather covers I think they are Asil,Malay,Sumatra,Shamo,Ko Shamo(bantam Shamo)basically,any game bird from the east.There are probably a lot more,and,none of what i've put in this post do I know for fact,it is only my assumptions.
I contacted the secretary of the breed club,got her email address from the breed clubs list on this site,she was very helpfull.
I do feel for you with your cockerel,if he doesn't stand up to your other birds attacking him,it would suggest he doesn't have much interest in fighting,which should be unusual for any of these breeds.
 
Lydia said:
Today I visited someone near to me to buy some adult chinese painted quail.As I was leaving,I was asked if I would like a hen for free.Being me,I said yes please,wish now that I hadn't :cry: .
The bloke said that it had crook toes,which it has had since hatching,none of my hens have crook toes,but,I understand that they can cope with this disability.
Well,he brought the 'hen' out,and then said that he thinks it is a shamo cockerel.
It is in my lounge now and does have a few other problems.
1) It looks as if this shamo cockerel has ricketts.It's legs are both bent and twisted.
2) It has a large open puss weaping wound on it's wing,at the joint that would be a shoulder(I think) on a human.Looks like the bone has pushed through the flesh and skin/or like a bed sore.Similar wound starting in exactly the same place on the other wing,not broken skin yet though.
3) Top beak is far too long,curved and looks like a bird of prey-it is affecting it's ability to feed properly.

Their beak is short and well curved, with the pronounced brow ridges they do look like a bird of prey. If the top beak is overgrown however it can be trimmed back with a pair if fingernail clippers. The overgrown part will be kinda clear and easy to see.


4) It's left eye is bubbly,full of clear watery bubbles.the right eye is clear.

This could be M.G. or just a simple resp. infection. Tylan, Baytril or Lincomycin-Spectinomycin should handle this very well.


5) It's face looks swollen,both sides.
6) Extremely thin and underweight,it is bald where it's breast bone is,the breast bone is almost poking through the skin.

The protruding breastbone with the bare patch is normal. It's a trait of most Oriental Games

7) This bird appears very calm and tame-I think because it is too ill.

Oriental Games are very people friendly and tame down very fast with just a little bit of handling.

So,can I trim the top beak,what can I use that will be strong and sharp enough.Is it ok to cut straight accross,or do I have to try and make it pointed?
I think someone told me you can use johnson's baby shampoo on eye infections,do you use it neat?

I am taking this bird to see a poultry vet tomorrow.

I would really appreciate some practical advise.
Click to expand...
 
Lydia I posted some answers after the questions in your post.

Did the breeder say what kind of Shamo it was? There are three basic types besides the bantams. Ko-Shamo are the smallest with the rooster generally going just a couple of pounds. The Que-Shamo, I think that is right, is mid-sized and will go about 6-8 pounds for a mature rooster and the O-Shamo is the largest. Those bad boys go around 15 pounds and stand around 30inches at maturity. In other words they can eat off of your table while standing on the floor!!

It sounds like the youngster was kept in a cage that was too small and was denied both sunshine and the proper diet. As you know stress can bring out illness in birds and it sounds like he had a lot of it.

Here is a shot of a young Asil that we have that shows his head fairly clearly. Just click on the pic to enlarge it.



And here is a shot of a bantam Malay x Naked Neck that shows the stance.


 
You did exactly the right thing for Kaz. I know the decision was hard to do.

It is a shame that people will keep birds and let them get into that condition.

The breeder that we got the Asils from has many birds that free range, they squabble from time to time but he said that in the last thirty years he has only had one bird that activly sought out a fight and he quicky went to freezer camp. Aggression is just another trait that can either be bred into, or out of, a line of birds.

No matter what the breed there will from time to time be two birds that just don't like each other. The dad to the Malay cross lived side by side with a big NN rooster for months and then one day they decided they could no longer be neighbors. I had to hang a tarp between the two pens. But I took a pic before I did.



Even hackled up like that I went in and picked him up with no problems and he calmed right down. That's an Oriental trait.
 
That would be a real help nnbreeder, I've been looking at your pics & I'm sure he's an Asil, the main difference is he's got short black feathers that stick right up on his head.He was attacked when he was about 20 weeks by the others & his head got badly pecked, the feathers are still growing back very slowly. He's such a good nature I will be sorry to see him go but if he won't be accepted by the others there's no choice.

I will post a pic, I'll try to take a new one today as I've only got one I took when he was about 18 weeks old. Its a really dark & wet day here in the UK so I might not be able to brave the weather!
 
Hi nnbreeder,he definitely wasn't the bantam version of a shamo,stood up, his head was taller/higher than my dogs(whippets)although my biggest whippet is 21'' at his shoulder.
The biggest difference that I noticed with Kaz,compared to pics that I found were his comb,I wondered if it had been cut/trimmed which is something done in this country by breeders who breed for illegal cockfighting.He would have been hopeless at cockfighting though 'cos of his bindy bendy legs,so would have been a waste trimming his comb for this reason.
His comb was identical to a hen shamo,I did wonder if he was actually a she and not a he.
Also,he/she was young,and I think still had more growing to do,so was probably an O Shamo.
I do wish i'd taken a pic of him,but,it would have been a very depressing pic,a wreck of what should have been a magnificent bird.
 
With the small comb Kaz was probably a hen. The combs of both are small and they do not need to be dubbed for pitting as with the Old English. And from your description probably over a year old but not quite two. It takes a full three years for them to reach maturity.

I document a lot of things with my birds by photos, no matter what the condition of the birds. It can be used as a reference later and my memory just isn't what it used to be. It's true that a picture is worth a thousand words.
 
That is very true,my batteries were flat in my camera,they were on charge whilst I was at the vets.
I prefer pics when a neglected animal survives,so you have 'before' and 'after' pics.They are very usefull for reference etc.
 
nnbreeder said:
Lucylou is there any way to post a picture of the bird? I bet I would have a good idea on what he is.
Click to expand...

I've posted pics in the General section in the Photos section for you to look at. I hope you can identify for me, although he doesn't stand quite so upright as in your photos, he certainly isn't the same as my other chooks. Look forward to hearing your opinion.
Thanks
 
I decided to call in and see the guy that I got Kaz from.Straight away he asked how he was,I explained that he was sick,and I'd taken him to the vet the following day and had him pts on the vet's recomendation.
He was visibly upset,offered me the money for the vet charges and explained that Kaz was his last Shamo.
He used to breed them but got sick of people wanting to buy them for illegal cock fighting,so stopped.Kaz was definitely his last Shamo.
 
He was upset? When he gave you a bird so obviously in bad shape that had not had proper care or treatment from him. I am sorry Lydia but I don't buy it. No self respecting poultry breeder would sell or give away a bird in that poor a state. That bird if it had been even halfway healthy would not have been recommended to be put down by the vet. It was his care of the bird that allowed him to deteriorate into that condition and ended in the chickens death. Maybe the bird was ill in some way that caused him to decline, but in that case this man should have been aware enough to attempt to treat him and should never have allowed his bird to get to the state he was when you took him on.

I still think he needs reporting to the RSPCA so they can check his facilities and ensure there are not other birds being kept like Kaz was. If there are more suffering like Kaz it would be terrrible. I think he is trying to pull a fast one on you as he has lied to you before (he said the bird was a hen before he brought him out to you, then said he was probably a cock bird which he then totally admits he was today saying he used to breed from him) and is probably worried you will report him. Its total BS he is feeding you IMHO.
 
I have to agree totally. Like I said it appears that Kaz was kept in too small an enclosure which caused the sores. The bubbly eyes and swollen face could be M.G. Coryza or a myriad of other ailments of the Resp. system and most are highly contagous.

Orientals are not fragile birds, they are tough but as with all birds need proper care to thrive. If the breeder could not see that Kaz was not top-notch just how are his other birds?
 
Hi Lydia
This bloke needs reporting, has totally pulled the wool over your eyes. Did he show you his other chooks? If so what kind of a state were they in?
 
He hasn't got any other chooks,we went into his back garden.His wife didn't like having the cockerel in the house.
I used to carry out home checks for G.R.W.E.,I am well used to checking suitability of homes and if people are lying etc.,I am satisfied that Kaz was his last chook,and,yes,he wasn't well cared for,but it is too late to do anything about Kaz now,the vets will have cremated his body long ago.
 
Thank you for explaining what you actually saw and that he has no other chickens. He sold you quail though?

Anyways, you seem to not feel the need to take further action. Thank you for acknowledging peoples concerns about reporting him. Its been voiced a few times back in the thread and its good to hear back from you on it.
 
If I'd taken some pics of the poor bird,I'd have asked the vet to back me up as well and I would have got in contact with the R.S.P.C.A. and the local council.I guess the vet will still have their report,but,his quail are all indoors and in totally different condition.
I still don't understand why it was in such poor condition.It was cruel.
What was remarkable about the back of his property is there were no chicken houses at all.No sign of chickens.
When he mentioned that he didn't breed them anymore,he never actually said when he stopped.I did wonder if it was a bird he had got from somewhere else.Although he did tell me that he hatched it.I don't fully understand what went wrong for this poor cockerel,but,I am satisfied that he has no more hens of any description.
 
--If there are no signs of poultry in his garden he probably keeps them somewhere else! BUT I dont feel its up to Lydia to pursue this further . Youve done your bit Lyds-more than most would. Its ok to look on from afar and say this or that should be done -not the same always when you are the one on the spot even though this mans actions deserve more . Well done for taking on poor Kaz. Ros
 
Thanks Ros,and to everyone.If I didn't want the input I wouldn't have posted about Kaz in the first place or done an update.Hopefully,if ever I,or anyone else who has read these posts will have some idea's of what to do/or not to do if they are ever faced with a similar situation.
I'm sure that every single person who posts on here would have taken him(Kaz)home with them if they'd been offered him.
 
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