Has the world gone mad or am I just out of touch?

[Margaid]

I saw this (below) on the BBC website and was gobsmacked. I do not subscribe to the "she asked for it" school of thought and although one should be able to walk anywhere at any time in complete safety, that is unfortunately not the case for anyone. The effect of violence is felt across all areas of society. One has to take some responsibility for one's own safety, but therein lies the problem, individuals do not want to take responsibility for their actions (witness the recent littering of beaches, parks and even the steps of the Senedd in Cardiff).

Schools have, or should have rules about school uniforms. I was at grammar school in the mid-late 60s when hemlines were rising dramatically. It was a girl's grammar school but I remember kneeling on the floor to have my skirt length checked - it had to touch the floor. Because of the design of the skirts it was quite easy to do want a lot of bold spirits did and after the check, turn the waistband over a couple of times to raise the hemline. I had always understood that one objective of a school uniform was so that there would be no distinction between pupils, although few state schools seem to insist on specific brands these days. There were only two shops in Cardiff where our uniform could be purchased.

Why is it "blatantly sexist"???? boys don't wear skirts (unless it's the kilt) so they can hardly have their hemlines checked.

I probably am out of touch because I feel that clothes should be appropriate for the occasion. I remember at the age of 14 on a group holiday to one of the Italian lakes NOT to walk from the lake to our accommodation in a swim suit, even with a towel wrapped around us or we could be charged by the police.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-56653583

 

[dianefairhall]

Wow! that’s posh! Kneeling on a cathedral floor to have your skirt measured? I had to make do with the gym or assembly hall. Standard practice mid-sixties, Margaid. I am mildly surprised they still do it but it’s nothing new, and difficult to see how it’s sexist unless the boys can wear what they want. I was at an all girls school too, but at some schools boys had to wear short trousers until a certain age.

 

[Margaid]

It was the assembly hall for us as we shared the gym with the boys school in the other half of the building, (Ugh! Sweaty boy smells!)
I think it was 14, or the third year when they were allowed to wear long trousers.
Hats (for the girls) and caps for the boys were de rigueur out of school - detention was the punishment for not wearing them.

 

[bigyetiman]

Just asked OH what the rules were at her all girls school and the skirt had to be an inch below the knee which was measured. There was also a rule she said about no stiffened petticoats being worn, hats to be worn out of school and blazers. Hair tied neatly, no earrings other than sleepers for those with pierced ears, no make up or nail polish, Flat shoes
For me it was long trousers on entering senior school, and caps and blazers at all times outside. Smart shoes.

 

[Hen-Gen]

Yeh much the same. You may remember about that time shirts came out where the collar and cuffs were white but the body was a different colour. I had the temerity to wear one. It was virtually a hanging offence!

 

[bigyetiman]

You rebel Hen-Gen. OH did add that the school skirts were pleated which created a weird effect if you rolled them up to make them shorter on leaving school. The one thing that would send the headmistress into a frenzy was a shirt not tucked neatly into the waistband of a skirt. If she shouted OH says
her false teeth would come flying out, which lessened the severity of the telling off. She was proceeded by the aroma of strong coffee and cigarettes as she walked around. Mrs Impey her name was.

 

[Margaid]

We were lucky as our skirts were changed from pleated to "A line" so they still looked OK when rolled over and the waistband covered by the royal blue v-necked sweater. We weren't supposed to wear any jewellery either and it was surprising how many items were offered to the chemistry mistress when she demonstrated the change (reduction?) of oxides to metal. I still us that method to clean anything silver.

 

[rick]

Awful! Really Awful! It's the 21st century and you'll (guys) have to take responsibly for reaction in the situation, whatever it is. Its tough - that's life, get on with it! (sorry, that made me crossX)

 

[bigyetiman]

There was also the lining up to be inspected by " nitty Norah" as we called the school nurse. The hearing tests, and height checks

 

[Hen-Gen]

Awful! Really Awful! It's the 21st century and you'll (guys) have to take responsibly for reaction in the situation, whatever it is. Its tough - that's life, get on with it! (sorry, that made me crossX)

Quite right Rick. We have, as they say, bigger fish to fry in the C21st.
To be fair though I think it was more about the ridiculous and pedantic rules by which we had to live 60 years ago. I think though “jobsworths” are still alive and kicking today.

 

[MrsBiscuit]

I worked in the City in 1992 (back office) and a more patrician environment you would never come across, old school ties and all manner of sexist nonsense was the norm, so obviously I didn't stay long. However, even there I was welcome to wear trousers to work. So what I hear you ask. Well, my next employment was in a medium size company, run by an autocrat (before the days of corporate scrutiny). We women were not allowed to wear trousers until 1996. I was gobsmacked as I turned up in smart trousers one day, in my late twenties, and was taken aside by a female manager and requested not to do it again. If it happened to me now I would stand for no nonsense, but I was so much younger and callow then.

 

[Margaid]

I remember in the blizzard of 1963 that we were told we girls could wear TROUSERS to school! No school uniform as it was primary school and braziers in the outside loos to stop them freezing. (No Safety Elves then, just common sense!)

One of the problems I see is that there is a lot of bulling in schools and anyone who is "different" will, and always did come in for their fair share of bullying. There is an argument that says one should be able to express one's individuality, in which case one has to be prepared to take the consequences and personally I don't see any need to encourage name-calling, trolling or whatever. And for those of you who are male, let me tell you that male-to-female bullying has NOTHING on female-to-female bullying!

 

[bigyetiman]

Or a same sex couple having a row, they can be really nasty

 

[Hen-Gen]

Or a same sex couple having a row, they can be really nasty

Tell me about it!
Though on reflection, please don’t.

 

[LadyA]

When I started working in a solicitors office in 1978, the female staff weren't allowed wear trousers or go without stockings or tights in Summer, and none of the staff could be called by their first name! But things changed rapidly and by 1985, I was wearing over-sized sweatshirts, leggings and Doc Martins to work!

Sent from my SM-A415F using Tapatalk

 

[rick]

I can see now that I jumped in on the headline without properly getting to grips with your point Margaid. Clearly there are socially appropriate ways to dress and some forms of self expression send intended, or unintended, messages of various kinds. Its all about making assumptions about others based on their appearance - which is kind of hard wired and so bound to happen to some degree, but hopefully we are steadily heading in a direction totally opposite to women having to cover up and not walk in an alluring way (according to the observer) to avoid driving men wild with uncontrollable passion! Seems to me that checking skirt length is the thin end of that wedge and sends a message to boys that the responsibility isn't theirs.
Last weekend the guys on the rugby field at archery were practically running around in their underpants (and safety wasn't something they had to worry about apart from grass stains on their pecks!)

 

[Hen-Gen]

Last weekend the guys on the rugby field at archery were practically running around in their underpants (and safety wasn't something they had to worry about apart from grass stains on their pecks!)

Strangely alluring though ?.
Pecks. A kind of hybrid version of pecs and peckers?

 

[Margaid]

I can see now that I jumped in on the headline without properly getting to grips with your point Margaid. Clearly there are socially appropriate ways to dress and some forms of self expression send intended, or unintended, messages of various kinds. Its all about making assumptions about others based on their appearance - which is kind of hard wired and so bound to happen to some degree, but hopefully we are steadily heading in a direction totally opposite to women having to cover up and not walk in an alluring way (according to the observer) to avoid driving men wild with uncontrollable passion! Seems to me that checking skirt length is the thin end of that wedge and sends a message to boys that the responsibility isn't theirs.
Last weekend the guys on the rugby field at archery were practically running around in their underpants (and safety wasn't something they had to worry about apart from grass stains on their pecks!)

I wish I could be as hopeful as you Rick as my observation (based solely on what is published in the media) is that things haven't improved much as far as the "hard wiring" goes, whatever the differences between people in an encounter of any sort. I don't want to broaden the argument into other areas but you seem to imply that heterosexual men don't go "on the strut" or behave in a way to indicate to women that they are available. The difference being that men are generally physically more able to deal with problems that may arise.

The point of the report to which I took very strong exception was that it was "blatantly sexist" to measure the length of the girls skirts and I still cannot see how that can be the case. Nearly every category in society has rules, whether it be the armed forces, schools or street gangs. If you don't have order and some sort of discipline things fall apart as I know only too well on a personal level. Thank God for my cats who at least impose some sort of discipline on me, although not as much as my chickens did.

 

[rick]

Strangely alluring though ?.
Pecks. A kind of hybrid version of pecs and peckers?

Maybe they are not as safe as they would suppose! :lol:

 

[rick]

I wish I could be as hopeful as you Rick as my observation (based solely on what is published in the media) is that things haven't improved much as far as the "hard wiring" goes, whatever the differences between people in an encounter of any sort. I don't want to broaden the argument into other areas but you seem to imply that heterosexual men don't go "on the strut" or behave in a way to indicate to women that they are available. The difference being that men are generally physically more able to deal with problems that may arise.

The point of the report to which I took very strong exception was that it was "blatantly sexist" to measure the length of the girls skirts and I still cannot see how that can be the case. Nearly every category in society has rules, whether it be the armed forces, schools or street gangs. If you don't have order and some sort of discipline things fall apart as I know only too well on a personal level. Thank God for my cats who at least impose some sort of discipline on me, although not as much as my chickens did.

You're right Margaid - of course they 'go on the strut' and so do women - and the risks will always be unbalanced, probably.
I'm really torn on the skirt measuring thing - part of me really riles against social norms because they only seem to be a reinforcement of the same old problems, but I can also see that 'liberation' was also just a good excuse for some. I am hopeful - a lot is reported now that went unreported before (though not nearly enough) - even so, there are some frightening things still going on out there.