Hard shells?

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Anne W

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Last year I allowed my lavender pekin to sit on 2 batches of eggs. The first batch saw only one chick hatch and the second none. I allowed the 2nd batch to stay with her for quite a few days after the expected hatching date to see what happened but after about 4 days I found what looked at first to be 6 dead chicks but looking closer they were still in the 'foetal' position but opened out a bit. They were fluffy and looked very much full term. I am assuming that she pecked the shells off - especially as I could find no large pieces of shell , but were already dead due to not being able to break out.

I hatched the father of these in an incubator and out of 8 eggs only he and his brother hatched and I was forced to help them out as they had only just pipped and been trying to get out for a long long time - possibly over a day - I can't remember now. I know if I hadn't they would have died. The remaining eggs never hatched and didn't even pip, despite rocking and cheeping.

The question I would like to ask is this - Is it worth trying to hatch some in the incubator? She has already started to lay and the cockerel has been active all winter!

I don't want to set myself up for more distress but would love to hatch some, this time in an incubator. Is there anything I could do so the shells aren't so hard or is that how it is?

Also, I don't help chicks out of their shells unless I am absolutely sure they will die if I don't. I once broke off a piece of shell and it bled but thank goodness I stopped ( and prayed - hard! lol) and it was fine. Has anyone helped them out if they have been rocking and cheeping for a long time and you just know they aren't going to manage to pip? If so how do you know where to start and what do you use and what method?

I know this a very controversial subject - helping a chick out of it's shell - some people would never do it - some are too quick to do it and some like me, will do it only to save the chick's life. So far, touch wood , no chick that I have helped out has gone on to have health problems or short lives. Not to say this will never be of course.

I would be really grateful for you advice.

Anne
 
Hi Anne.
I'm really not qualified to answer your question, but if the cockerel came from a clutch with a poor hatching record, perhaps it's hereditary?
Perhaps a different "Dad" is what you need?
 
Yes, I had thought that too but the trouble is they are a pair kept on their own and are absolutely devoted to each other. I haven't the heart to split them up.
 
If they have problems hatching in an incubator, I wonder if the humidity was high enough to help soften the shell? You are experienced with hatching, and I'm sure you know all about that, but if this wasn't the problem, as Icemaiden says it may be a genetic fault and different parents might be a good idea. Maybe you could consider getting some hatching eggs and either incubating them, or substituting them for the hen's own eggs when she next hoes broody if you wanted her to hatch her own? And then, of course, if you wanted to, you could add in one or two from another breed if you wanted.
 
I think that is a good idea Marigold. I might buy some in and give her half in half. I will put a mark on each egg so I know which ones hatch. I know she sits tight . Regarding humidity, someone said that often non-hatching can be down to the hard shell which doesn't allow enough moisture OUT of the shell and when they break into the airsack they drown ( dreadful thought!) It makes you wonder sometimes why we do all this lol.
 
I have read that many deaths in shell result from having the humidity too high in the early stages, so that the chicks drown from too much moisture permeating their shells at an early stage. Certainly, many experienced people on here recommend not providing any extra humidity in an incubator, or very little, until the eggs actually pip. This is certainly so for quail eggs, which hatch much better under conditions where they just get the humidity from the surrounding air, which is normally about 45% unless the incubator is in a very dry, centrally- heated room. I understand that this probably isn't your problem, as your chicks made it to the final stages but couldn't then get out. But I think that the idea of them drowning in shell because insufficient moisture was being let out from the egg contents is possibly the wrong way round. The purpose of the permeable shell is mainly to allow oxygen and some water vapour through to the chick as it grows, and there shouldn't be a lot of water within the air sac when they break through the membrane - unless the ambient humidity has been way too high.
I suppose one reason why the chicks didn't manage to get through the shells might be that they just weren't vigorous enough? Nature's way of survival of the fittest, rather than extra-tough shells? Either way, some eggs for a different source might hive you some answers - and some chicks!
 
Some chicks would be wonderful! There's nothing like it is there? watching these little souls come out of their shells. Most of my many hens have been hatched here and it makes them so much more special. I will wait until she goes broody and starts sitting but in the meantime I will look for a source for lavender pekin hatching eggs. If anybody knows of a good source please let me know - especially if they are near south Oxfordshire.

Thankyou so much for everyones advice .

Anne
 
When the time comes, there's a subsection of the Chickens for Sale or Wanted section of the forum which is for Hatching Eggs for Sale or Wanted. You could try posting a new thread on there.
 
What are the shells like if you crack the eggs for eating? Now I'm having to buy eggs I find a lot of variation in the shells, and some are so hard they need quite a whack to break them. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but if she is laying very hard shelled eggs maybe you should look at some way of reducing the calcium in her diet?
 
I usually just put her eggs in the bowl with all the others so I will keep hers separate and see how hard they are to crack. I did wonder that myself about the calcium but I have a feeling it isn't easy to reduce the calcium a chicken takes in - I think it's more about how her body metabolises the calcium.
 
I think shell thickness depends on the age of the parent hens. Pullet eggs can vary a lot and are smaller. I read that they have the same amount of Calcium for each egg and as they get older the egg size increases slightly and the shell thickness therefore decreases slightly. Another reason for not hatching pullet eggs. I have noticed this in our TNN's. The 'babies' are now 15 months old and their eggs are nearly, but not quite, the same size as their parents who are now coming up to 3 years. When they first laid their eggs were quite small.
 
Thankyou - very interesting. She's over 2yrs old now so they should be bigger soon. I will wait a few months before letting her sit. The danger is that as soon as you think its a good time they decide to stop laying! lol
 
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