Fungal sour crop

chrismahon

chrismahon

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Isabella, a 3 year old Buff Orpington and one of Bottom's 'wives', has sour crop. When I looked into her mouth, nearly overcome with the smell, I could see what looked like feed stuck to the side of her mouth and throat. Attempting to dislodge it I soon realised it was yellow fungal growth -same thing as I have seen on our 'bumblefoot or what' Wyandottes.

Call to the chicken experienced vet resulted in her investigation telling her there are two different fungii that it could be. One is treated with Nystatin. The other she didn't know. We agreed to treat it blind with Nystatin and have a sample sent for testing. That changed somewhat when we went for our appointment and ended up with another vet.

He told us it would take two weeks for the fungal test and cost £44 -it might be all over by then. The Nystatin in water solution will be £33 and the consultation was £22. So we are collecting the Nystatin and no test.

He was of the opinion that with her weight down to 3.25KG, from 4 Kg, and the fungus growing in her mouth and down her throat that this is a secondary effect of an underlying condition. He thought she would be riddled with the fungus that he said was present everywhere but is normally kept in check by a healthy bird. It has been growing inside her over the last few weeks. So the prognosis is not good.

Knowing Issy, the hen 'addicted to grit' last year, she was very healthy and alert and up to the Flubenvet last week had been eating well. Knowing also that our land appears to have some kind of fungus that attacks feet I think it is also possible that she has swallowed a piece of glass (there are thousands of pieces in the soil) that has cut her mouth and throat and has become affected with this fungus.

Anyway the Nystatin starts tonight together with a concerted effort to get food into her with a tube and huge syringe we were given. Tried it out in the surgery and it was easy to slowly slide it down her throat and into her crop. In the meantime she is in 'sick bay' with Daffodil who still hasn't laid her egg -perhaps she is egg bound?

We'll see in due course who is right, hopefully me or the vet ?
 
Hi Chris this sounds like a chronic canker or Trichomoniasis. This looks like hard yellow cheesy deposits on the trachea, mouth and this can cause blockage and infection in the crop typically leading to weight loss over a period a time. Birds can be chronically or acutely affective, in chronic infections symptoms are subtle with the bird losing condition over a period of time.

Treatment is Metronidazole (flagyl) a sort of antibiotic effective against protozoa, the organism responsible for canker. Treatment with Nystatin is also affective, but treating canker can take a while before you see results in my experience.
 
I agree with foxy first thing I thought when reading through your post was canker
 
Thanks. Will be on to the vet first thing. Got to go back anyway as they screwed up with the concentration of Nystatin and gave us a 30mL bottle to treat 2 x a day with 10mL for 5 days !
 
chrismahon said:
Thanks. Will be on to the vet first thing. Got to go back anyway as they screwed up with the concentration of Nystatin and gave us a 30mL bottle to treat 2 x a day with 10mL for 5 days !
Click to expand...

That is a high dose chris
 
Spoke to Vet Foxy and looked it up anyway. Nystan is 100,000 Units Nystatin/mL. One mL is needed to treat a 350 gramme bird twice a day. Issy is 3.25 Kg so it should actually be closer to 9 mL twice a day. So the leftover and more goes on Claude's tongue twice a day. Apparently it just sits in the digestive system and stops fungal growth so settles the system and she eats. Reason it's so thick is all the other stuff in it which I suppose is there to aid recovery.

Her horrible bad breath has gone already so hopefully she will eat without forcing her. She ate all her maggots.
 
Some folks in Poland give chopped onion for chickens to deal with bacterial and fungal infections,unfortunetly mine do not tuch this remedy.It may be woth to try this with both of your chickens-sometimes birds will eat plants instictevly they know that this will help them
 
Thanks Tygresek. We'll try the onions to see if either Issy or Claude will eat them. If not I will make a cheese and onion sandwich -my favourite.
 
I wonder if anyone has tried fine Fettle Feeds's Happy Tummy charcoal stuff? see http://www.finefettlefeed.com/poultry.asp
I know Tim was giving it to his birds and I've just started adding it to chicken and quail feed. It's very finely-ground charcoal powder, not a medicine but it's supposed to soak up toxins in the birds' gut, improve health and droppings etc. Too soon to know if it makes any difference to mine and they're all healthy ATM anyway, just an excuse to try something new. I wondewred if anyone has any experience of using it with birds with sourcrop problems, sounds as if it might help. It's supposed to help remove ammonia and make droppings smell less, which would certainly help with quail. Because of their higher-protein diet their droppings do pong strong, compared with chickens!
 
Yes people in Poland using this to(maybe in a bit difrent form)Just remember that charcoal binds lots of good stuff too ,so too much is no good either.
 
tygrysek75 said:
Yes people in Poland using this to(maybe in a bit difrent form)Just remember that charcoal binds lots of good stuff too ,so too much is no good either.
Click to expand...

Yes I wouldn't give charcoal to any birds which are taking medication. I am not sure I would give charcoal anyway, I don't really understand the benefit :-)05
 
My understanding is if you giving your bird medicine you should not give an charcoal at the same time as it prewent medicine to work.Charcoal is used with poisoning mostly and helping with diarrhea .
 
tygrysek75 said:
My understanding is if you giving your bird medicine you should not give an charcoal at the same time as it prewent medicine to work.Charcoal is used with poisoning mostly and helping with diarrhea .
Click to expand...

Activated charcoal is used in overdose due to its porosity, I am not sure how the charcoal sold as a poultry supplement works in relation to processed charcoal.
 
We collected more Nystan today and the vet threw in 30mL of Flagyl. He's altered his diagnosis and thinks it probably is Canker, just as you said Foxy. She's had Bottom with her all day, he won't leave her side even for a moment. Daffodil laid her egg and then started making a load of noise -she wants to be taken onto the front lawn. So she was taken to a rearing unit in the Orchard instead -relative peace for a few hours, except Claude wants attention as well -more food please!

Issy had her Nystan at 1.00pm and her Flagyl at 3.00pm. She has been positioned so she could see Dilly eating as we have found it usually works to get them eating again when they see another chicken eating. So as soon as Dilly went out she crept into Dilly's cage and ate some of her foodfood. Then Bottom went into the kitchen with her and ate his food. As soon as he had his cuddle she went and ate his food as well. Now has a half full crop so no force feeding required !

Hopefully she has turned the corner and the next major hurdle will be integrating her with her sister Victoria again. Last time they had a major scrap when she went back and Victoria had to be separated for a day.
 
Good to hear that the treatments works and all on the mend with good appetite :D Any luck with the onion?
 
Haven't needed to try it yet Tygresec but rest assured I will. May be a real saviour in France because there is no chicken treatment over there. Sick birds are just killed. In the meantime the onion will go in my lunch sandwiches.
 
To update. She has developed runny eyes and I think it may be a reaction to all this Nystan. She's lost her appetite as well. So we've stopped that and will just give the Flagyl. The cankers seem to be shrinking. Plus she has now gone very chesty, so Baytril needed tomorrow.
 
Unlike Claude, who is sitting on my leg with a full crop preening at the moment, Isabella isn't doing so well. Gave her the Flagyl yesterday and the canker has grown. The first vet I spoke to said there were two types of fungal attack which each required different treatment and I think she was right. Nystan has cured the fungal sour crop at the dose of 10mL, twice a day. She has no smelly breath and her poos are OK. But the previous reduction in the canker has reversed since we stopped the Nystan and switched to Flagyl. Working on the basis that Nystan cured the sour crop I think we should now use it to tackle the canker, which must be the same fungus as was in the crop. But will only use enough to coat the cankers, overnight when feed and water doen't wash it off. Will keep you all updated.
 
So we've switched back to Nystan at 5mL twice a day dribbled over the canker, or what we can see. Bad breath has gone again and the canker has stopped growing. Rosie gave her half an asprin yesterday and today she is noticably brighter.

She's been out most of the day acting as if nothing is wrong. First stop the drinker then the feeder. Eyes both open so Myco easing. Think she may be fussy about what feeder and drinker she uses but the peer pressure from the other chickens helps. Perhaps you can keep them isolated from their friends for too long?
 
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