fertility of breeding birds

[chickenfan]

Does anyone know up to what age it is safe to breed and get healthy offspring? I've seen a very nice trio of 3-year old (fertile) silver sablepoots (born 2011) which a friend is giving up. Would they be too old for breeding next year (at age 4)?

 

[chrismahon]

I thought that the older they are the more likely to develop strong offspring Chickenfan, because those with inherent problems have since died. But there may be an issue of shell quality with older hens which makes incubation problematic -we'll find out in Spring when we breed from 5 year olds.

 

[chickenfan]

Interesting Chris. I guess the weaker birds have died off, so you are breeding birds with stronger genes. Re the thinner shells of older birds, I read somewhere that if they are incubated by a broody hen for the first week, the oil in her feathers makes a protective covering on the shell. Perhaps they need extra trace minerals in the diet too. Have you found any breeding diet particularly good? How is Claude?

 

[chrismahon]

We mix layers and rearers pellets and feed them that. Fresh veg treats as well. Perhaps this time we will give cod liver oil because the vitamin D helps with the shell quality. Of course the older birds don't lay so well which means we won't get many eggs to incubate anyway. We have some mineral additives and could make them a pellet 'mash', which they will love.

Claude didn't make it Chickenfan -he had an underlying heart problem we think because he kept going very pale and became unaware of his surroundings. His son Jean-Claude has taken his place, a job he had been waiting two years to take. He has settled in well and gets regular visits from the hens that visited him in his old enclosure one of which, a copper black Marans, is definitely his favourite.

 

[chickenfan]

I am sorry to hear about Claude, Chris. But it sounds as though he had a very nice life. How do you give the cod-liver oil to your birds? Its a good idea about the Vitamin D. I notice that specialist breeders pellets are higher in protein, calcium and vitamins, so I wonder about the rearer's pellets, which are lower in protein?

 

[KittyKat]

I'm also wondering about cod liver oil as my oldest hybrid has her eggs break on impact with the bedding in the nest box. Are chickens supposed to have about the same amount of vitamin A and vitamin D per kg as humans? If that's the case, then one capsule worth of the stuff is enough to give them over a week worth of their vitamins.

 

[chrismahon]

Generally rearers is slightly higher in protein than layers pellets Chickenfan and has more good stuff in it. We are not aiming for thick shells and yellow yolks for hatching so all layers seems pointless. We give cod liver oil by syringe at the rate of 0.5mL per Kg bodyweight which is known as 'a little drop of sunshine' in the old poultry keeping circles. We use it on ailing birds at the same rate and never dose twice in the same week because a sick Cream Legbar seemed to overdose on it -he picked up after the first and was ill after a second. Has worked for us with shell quality KittyKat. I read recently that too much Calcium upsets the Calcium to Phosphorus balance and can cause thin shelled eggs. You could try the Nettex mineral powder with extra calcium and phosphorus, that I posted about recently.

 

[chickenfan]

Growers pellets are lower in protein than chick crumbs or layers pellets, and higher in energy. Chick crumbs are generally 18% protein for the fast initial growth, growers pellets are 15-16% protein to slow the growth and allow proper development, layers are 17-21% protein (usually 17% to keep costs down) with more calcium.

 

[chrismahon]

Chick crumb has higher protein I thought because their digestive system is so inefficient Chickenfan. You will see a broody hen eat their poo because of the amount of nutritional stuff left in it.

Just checked our feed- my French is getting better. Rearers has 17.2% protein and layers 16.5%. Rearers has a lot more elements in it as well, which I can't translate. One thing I hadn't realised before is that the layers we have to buy here (because our previous layers feed made by Sanders isn't locally available) has got three permitted chemical colourants for the yolks. Same as cheap feed in the UK except this isn't that cheap (€16.50 for 25Kg). On that basis we won't be feeding any layers to the breeding sets when we collect hatching eggs. They will all go onto rearers temporarily and we will add a Calcium supplement -perhaps only Oystershell grit, not mixed. We have a bag somewhere? Then we need to consider what to buy longer term, because I don't really want to be eating chemicals. No wonder our yolks are so golden! We used to buy Smallholder feed in the UK which hasn't got the colourants.