EcoSheet v Stockboard v Plywood

chrismahon

chrismahon

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Thanks to Margaid for pointing me towards EcoSheet. Went to the Staffordshire show today and saw some. A sample is on the way to try cutting and fixing.

I am building a set of 6 coops (more on those later) which rely on the floor structure to keep them in shape during any transit, which is the worst case loading for any coop. My intention was to use 18mm plywood, which isn't the quality it used to be no matter where I buy it around here. I was then going for the usual filling of the voids in the cut edges and a prime and gloss painting of the top surface.

Using Stockboard, solid plastic sheet, was considered but the weight is far too high. Even though it is available in a choice of thicknesses and I could go a bit thinner to reduce the impact.

Then came EcoSheet which is basically any old plastic that can't be properly recycled shredded up, heated slightly and rolled into sheet of one thickness, being 18mm. The rolling process skins/ seals the surfaces and the centre is full of voids which reduces the overall weight considerably, so a sheet of 1220 x 2440 is 33Kg not 40 odd Kg of ply or 60Kg of Stockboard. Apparently it can be cut with any woodcutting equipment.

In this application the advantages over ply are weight and processing time, as it doesn't need painting. It will still need the edges sealed as the voids in the middle make a red mite paradise! I am concerned that the fixing screws will pull through it as I have had to commit the sin of hanging the coop floor off the fixing screws to get the assembly time and complexity down. I was going to use deck screws but think I may need some special exrerior wood screws with large dome heads.

Before I go any further down this path and actually spend some money on it, has anyone on the forum built anything with this material and if so how does it perform?
 
Hi Chris,

I suggest you contact Paul Heritage of www.heritageandsons.co.uk (although could be a bit awkward if you're buying the stuff elsewhere) or try www.Solwayrecycling.co.uk (they are the major distributor). I found both firms very helpful.

The Ecosheet.com website in the technical section recommend self tapping posidrive screws their 'phone number is 01582 437 170. I'm sure if you gave them a call and explained the problem they would help. I need to call them to find out what they mean when they say ecosheet can be "edge banded" - it may solve the problem of voids in the cut edges.

BTW I experimented with the edge using my "cook's blowtorch", it melted the plastic OK (even set fire to it) but didn't provide a decent edge finish.

I'll be interested to see what you find out.
 
Hi Margaid. I'm going to seal the cut edges with car body filler and plane flat. Next stage is to try to get some special screws. I can achieve the same effect of spreading the load with washers but that's fiddly. So the sheet will be pre-drilled and the fixings put through into the timber frame. May end up doing first 3 coops with EcoSheet and the other 3 with plywood. There is not much between them really.
 
Sample still hasn't arrived and I have emailed about special fixings for it as the local fastener specialist has nothing to prevent 'pull through' apart from washers. In the meantime I have found a source of good quality 16mm plywood with hardly any voids at all. The weight advantage for EcoSheet then disappears. Plywood costs the same, needs painting but no filling edges and the cost/ time of painting and filling will be about the same.
 
I've spoken to Ecosheet, Solway and Green Frog today Chris. Ecosheet said if you use the recommended fixings you won't get "pull through" - they have carried out a lot of testing. Also apparently the plastic tends to mould itself around the screws.

"Edge banding" is something that can't be done by a DIYer unless you have access to a high pressure laminating system.

Greef Frog looked at Ecosheet becasue they want to make bigger houses and the 9mm board they use isn't rigid enough. On a production basis filling cut edges with two part filler was not viable, however as I'm only talking about one (or maybe two) coops that isn't an issue.

If you've find a supply of plywood you're happy with that's great. As far as I'm concerned the jury is still out on material and I have another batch of queries which really need a different post.
 
Just looked at the Ecosheet technical data and it doesn't discuss the potential fixing problem Margaid, although it does mention using car body filler. I certainly haven't written it off yet, but with 6 coops and £100 being spent one way or another it's got to be right. To be honest I am not looking forward to painting all that ply either. As soon as the sample arrives I will make up my mind, but still nothing and time is running out. Wednesday I start the first three floors.
 
This is the info I found on their website Chris:-

Gluing
We recommend Loctite 3038 for general fabrication work. Sikaflex 552 will bond when used on the face.

Screwing
Self tapping posi screws take and hold well without pilot holes.

Nailing
Round wires and ring shanks work well. Nail guns can be used provided they are set to a 'flush' setting and you are fixing the EcoSheet board into timber.

at www.ecosheet.com/products/technical-information

I rang them and described what you were doing as I understood it and was assured that there would be no "pull through".

For the sample, try calling Paul Heritage on 07712 622 636 - he'll almost certainly answer even though it's Sunday. From my own experience having manned exhibition stands it can take several days to process all the enquiries made at the show. In your place I'd call him and tell him it's urgent.
 
Just spoken to Paul. In my application -hanging the 1000 x 800 sheet underneath and relying only on the fixings -it needs at least two support battens across the width or it will snap under my weight when cleaning out. It can be considered only as strong as chipboard. For my mobile coops it will be ideal as they have a support framework underneath the floor and the fixings through it are only for location.
 
Thanks for all your help Margaid. Means I have got to get the paintbrush out another 12 times for primer/ undercoat and then undercoat/ gloss! So maybe the next mobile will have a plastic floor?
 
Tiny sample which arrived today was as anticipated. Voids are slightly smeared over by the action of the cutter. They were quite small in this sample but having looked at the pictures of pallets of sheets, small isn't typical. The surface is waxy in texture and delaminates with very rough abrasion. As for the brittle test -put the piece in a vice and hit it with a hammer. It snapped immediately just like chipboard would. I don't think countersunk screws would pull through, rather load pulling against them would result in the board breaking around the area leaving a piece held in place and a loose board with a hole in it. As I said before this material would be good for a coop floor if it were properly supported, just like chipboard is, and the edges were sealed -mastic would do the job. I wouldn't build a whole coop out of it as I don't think it would stand the wind loading on any exposed edges or physical loading on any joints. I also wonder if it could fill with water -the sample was left floating for a minute, was dried off and weighed 5% more. Not a problem though if the edges are sealed.
 
Thanks for posting that Chris. Talking about your post to OH at breakfast, we went out to his workshop to carry out a couple of experiments: he "bounced" the sample in the vice and on the third push it snapped like chipboard so then he screwed the 2 bits together at right angles.

As an Engineer his opinion is that one should use 60mm (self-tapping posidrive) screws. That then gives very good tensile strength so there shouldn't be any problem at the joints.

I'm not sure what you mean by "stand the wind loading on any exposed edges", can you be a little more specific please?

As far as water take up is concerned maybe it was water remaining in the edges particularly as some of them were partly covered by the swarf from the cutter.

That reminds me that when putting the screws in the swarf from the hole formed quite a burr round the screw. OH swiped it over with glasspaper with screw in place but I wasn't happy, so on second go he removed the screw with about 12mm still to go and cleaned up the hole with a countersink tool which gave a good smooth finish. Bit of a ffaff though if there are lots of screws.

His observation is that the board is not as well melted together as it could be - wasn't so easy to tell from the cut edge of the sample. I may do a rethink as the extra cost of using Stokboard for the Poultry Palace is about £40. I liked the Ecosheet because ti was thicker and should have provided more insulation.
 
The insulation should be the best of all the options by far. Wind loading under overhanging edges like a roof panel which lifts it against the fixings. Stokboard is really heavy.

Bad new with the ply. Can't get 16mm locally of quality, it jumps from 12 to 18 so there's another Kilo on the coops!
 
That's a pain!

I'm glad we did the bending test because, looking at it more closely, the Ecosheet doesn't really seem to be at all well bonded in the middle. What looks like a good solid top and bottom layer at the cut edge is a result of the cutting melting the plastic. At the break, the top and bottom layer are really quite thin. I was going to use Onduline on the roof due to the design of the Poultry Palace which will still have some wind lift issues but won't be so bad because the wind can blow under the Onduline corrugations - it's what provides the ventilation. The weight of Stokboard isn't an issue for me except for the actual construction as I'm not intending to move the coop. I'm hoping to collect the Solway hen house I bought on ebay this weekend and also look at Green Frog so I should be better informed (or more confused)!!
 
I've used eco-sheet, it is good and requires no maintenance, use posidrive 2" size 7 or 8 screws with a washer to secure, a problem I did find was that in hot weather the air in the sheet expands and the sheet moves, if screwed down tight it buckles. I drilled oversize holes and didn't screw it down too hard to allow it to move a little, that largely cured the problem.
 
Did you build a coop/hen house with it or was it used for other agricultural purpose Farmer Giles?

Did you use the 40mm section at corners or did you just screw 2 pieces at right angles?

I, and I expect Chris too, would be interested to hear what you used it for.

We've had to allow for differential expansion throughout our barn rebuild/conversion so that would be easy to do.
 
Margaid said:
Did you build a coop/hen house with it or was it used for other agricultural purpose Farmer Giles?

Did you use the 40mm section at corners or did you just screw 2 pieces at right angles?

I, and I expect Chris too, would be interested to hear what you used it for.

We've had to allow for differential expansion throughout our barn rebuild/conversion so that would be easy to do.
Click to expand...

I used it in fact to build a dog kennel, using 1"x2" timber and 2"x2" timber, fixing cut sheets at right angles for sides/floor, with silicone under abutting joins to prevent water ingress, and fixing the roof join at top with "NoNails" glue. After heat buckling I unscrewed/un-nailed it then used screws only, and made holes bigger than needed for screws, and a 'penny' washer between screw and sheet, with a drop of silicone between washer and hole to prevent water ingress.
 
Glad I didn't use Ecosheet in the end. Two things I overlooked. Firstly the floor has to take my weight, because crawling into the coop is on occasions necessary. Even 18mm plywood creaks a bit. Second the extremes of temperature here. It can vary 20 degrees over a day, unless the coop is in the sun then it would be 40 degrees. The maximum temperature in August has got to 43 degrees, but occasional 40 degrees is a seasonal normal. The January minimum is -17 degrees, with -5 at night being normal.
 
It's still in the van Margaid- exactly the same place as we put it, but now in the shelter of a damp barn. There is absolutely no chance of it surviving here on a hot day. I would expect it to sag a bit flat like all plastic things do and then go brittle very quickly. We will start the red mite treatment when the temperature has cooled down (still 27 degrees daytime), but it will never be used as permanent housing. Obviously they don't sell plastic coops here, but they do sell ones with a galvanised steel roof.

Just replaced some felt on a coop. The felt melted and the grit got washed off in a thunderstorm, which we get during very hot days!
 
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