Dislocated toe???

[Nick]

Hello to the forum!
I have new chicken that was introduced to a small flock of three when they were all about 9 months old (not yet laying) and she was about 10 weeks old. They bully her, but not too badly - they never draw blood - and they let her sleep with them etc. She seemed to be settling in but in the last week she has suffered a setback, becoming very quiet and sitting down for long periods of time, and struggling to walk when she does. She seems very thin - but I wondered if this was normal since she is really growing fast in height (she it a speckledey). We caught her yesterday to have a look at the foot, and when I wiggled he centre toe on the leg she was limping on, it seemed to crunch a bit and she didn't like it. I thought she may have broken it, and was planning to get some tape from the vets and splint it up.
I went up to see her this morning, and she hadn't got up at all. I picked her up and the toe seemed to bother her less, and it moved more freely. She isn't sneezing, but she does have a little clear discharge from one eye (bubbles when she breathes - but only a very little, and only from time to time).
Has anyone come across such a thing as a dislocated toe, and does the group reckon the bird has much change of recovery? We have no vets locally that deal with poultry, and in any case, I'm not really that tempted to pay £20 to be told that my £7 hen is going to die!!

Thanks for any help, and apologies for the long post!!

Nick

 

[Bertie & The Chooks]

I'm not really that tempted to pay £20 to be told that my £7 hen is going to die!!

That's not very fair to the welfare of the animal. She is obviously in distress and needs medical attention. Please take her to the vets and let them check her over, she may be in a lot of pain or have an infection in the foot which is making her unwell.

If you're not willing to treat her with medication and have her looked after, you might as well put her out of her misery now before it gets any worse. Don't leave her to suffer please, not taking her to the vet is bad enough. I mean what's it to you, she only cost you £7, you could buy another one with the £20 you'll save!...

 

[Nick]

You are correct - and my original post probably seemed a little uncaring, because I'm actually really worried but trying to suppress it.... But...... the reason I posted here was the hope that someone would reply with hints that yes, chickens do this, and although they will be off their food for a few days they will probably get better.... I mean, what is the point of a forum about chick health if the default advice is always she is ill, take her to the vet!!

 

[Bertie & The Chooks]

You are correct - and my original post probably seemed a little uncaring, because I'm actually really worried but trying to suppress it.... But...... the reason I posted here was the hope that someone would reply with hints that yes, chickens do this, and although they will be off their food for a few days they will probably get better.... I mean, what is the point of a forum about chick health if the default advice is always she is ill, take her to the vet!!

Any animal can break or dislocate a bone with due force. In some circumstances it will heal on it's own, but will be very painful for them. some animals may not show pain in the same way you would expect from human nature. If there is a hidden peck wound somewhere on her, its possible she may have an infection. runny eyes and nose can come and go, but tend to be more so when a bird is unwell or at their low immunity from moulting. Is she alert? What's her colour like in her comb? Can you find any wounds on her or any areas that are hotter than others on her body? you say she is still young, so not likely to be egg bound. are the others putting on weight and happy? do any of them also have the discharge in the eyes? if the discharge is clear it may be nothing, but if it's coloured it could be more sinister.

it's a tough time of the year with it being wet and cold as well as darker for the hens. they need draft free sleeping quarters with good clean dust free bedding. If you have provided these, then it's unlikely to be a cause of upset. you have already mentioned the foot has been a problem for her, I would not recommend resetting and splinting the digit with out veterinary care or assistance. Being off food and not leaving coop is not a good sign. It's obvious she is unwell.

Unfortunately because none of us can see the bird it's very difficult for anyone to offer you anymore advice than to keep her warm, safe and watch her. Be sure she has fresh water and nutritious food available and call a vet if she seems to be suffering.

Sorry I can't offer more advice, even as a vet nurse, sometimes you need to see the animal to be able to honestly make a guess as to what to do next. If you care for the bird, I would at least ring the vets and speak to one of the nurses at the practice or the duty vet for more advice. A chicken vet/nurse might be able to ask better questions to find out what's going on. I'm afraid I'm more feline/canine specific in my veterinary work. Hope this helps and sorry if i sounded a bit harsh. i just don't like to see animals in pain and the price comment wound me up.

 

[Nick]

Thanks for that - very helpful.
The other birds are all very robust and happy. They run round like crazy when we let them free range in the allotment, and the other one did too. One of the older birds did have a bit of a gooey eye the other day, but it cleared up in a couple of days - we bathed it in salt water, and that seemed to help....
The ill one is actually really alert and doesn't seem unwell other than not wanted to get up. No sign of any wounds, and the food is unswollen and not hot. When you put food in front of her she gobbles it up like crazy, which was what made me think it was just a mechanical problem.....
She's booked in to see the vet tomorrow, so hopefully I'll find a bit more out then.

 

[Bertie & The Chooks]

Thanks for that - very helpful.
The other birds are all very robust and happy. They run round like crazy when we let them free range in the allotment, and the other one did too. One of the older birds did have a bit of a gooey eye the other day, but it cleared up in a couple of days - we bathed it in salt water, and that seemed to help....
The ill one is actually really alert and doesn't seem unwell other than not wanted to get up. No sign of any wounds, and the food is unswollen and not hot. When you put food in front of her she gobbles it up like crazy, which was what made me think it was just a mechanical problem.....
She's booked in to see the vet tomorrow, so hopefully I'll find a bit more out then.

Do you know where the crop is on the hen? if so can you have a feel of it and see if how it feels, is it hard?, putty like, or crunchy or really soft and mailable? can you open her mouth and does it have a bad smell or is it sweet smelling?
What are her droppings like? is her bum really dirty and messy?

In future, I would pick up some Optrex eye wash and use that instead of salt water, you don't want the water to be too salty and Optrex has a good sterile solution too. Keep her warm,(maybe bring her inside if possible?) see if you can speak to a vet on the phone before you go and get some verbal advice, they may be able to save you a trip in and most vets will offer some advice over the phone.

 

[Nick]

Hi,
The crop feels crunchy and fairly malleable. Haven't had a smell of her breath - will try that... Droppings are daily normal I think - and her vent is fairly clean. Just opened up the box, she wolfed down a handful of mealworms.....
No eye discharge at all, and her nostrils look nice and clean...
The Chicken specialist vet is not in today, but she is going in for a look see tomorrow..... good point re the optrex- the wife uses contact lenses, and has spare solution - would probably be a better option.
Nick

 

[Bertie & The Chooks]

Hi,
The crop feels crunchy and fairly malleable. Haven't had a smell of her breath - will try that... Droppings are daily normal I think - and her vent is fairly clean. Just opened up the box, she wolfed down a handful of mealworms.....
No eye discharge at all, and her nostrils look nice and clean...
The Chicken specialist vet is not in today, but she is going in for a look see tomorrow..... good point re the optrex- the wife uses contact lenses, and has spare solution - would probably be a better option.
Nick

if she's eating well that's a good sign! it may be an injury and not an illness. if this is any consolation, all of mine are hunched up, fluffed up and hiding under the coop together in a pile. some are moulting at the moment and look pretty sorry for themselves. i think if they were clever enough they would go back in the coop!! LOL i have fair weather chickens... :lol:

 

[chrismahon]

Hi Nick. She was far too young to be put in with the others. Was she eating layers pellets instead of rearers and is she now eating enough? She sounds terribly run down -all that stress I suppose. She could be suffering from an ILT flare-up with the eye, which will clear when she is back to health. The toe joint may be damaged but they will mend well if she can move it the full degree; from flat to curled around a perch. Sometimes they knit at funny angles but it doesn't stop them from moving around normally. Doubt any bones are broken. She needs TLC and any future additions need to be introduced at the right age, gently.

 

[Nick]

Hi!
The whole situation was very annoying. We got all the chicks at the same time, but one turned out to be a cockerel - the breeder replaced it for the Speckledy, and suggested that we could try introducing her to the flock, but to watch out. She was bullied a little, but really seemed to be settling until this setback. She has been with the flock for about 2 months, and up till last week was getting on reasonably well. Because none of them are laying, we put the whole lot back onto growers pellets, assuming that there is not much chance of the others starting laying at this time of year.
Assuming she lives thruogh this - should we put her in a run on her own and grow her on? Would she be more upset being all on her own? We had a sneaking suspicion that this might all end in tears....

 

[chrismahon]

Would avoid that breeder -just in it for cash. Isolate her back to good health with a run alongside the others. Then, in a few months I suppose, re-integrate her at night.

The others may have got tetchy with moult or weather and that's why they attack her. Probably damaged her foot escaping. Should be fine if she is strong when she goes back.

 

[Chuck]

Sometimes they integrate with no problems but more often they don't. I suspect she has been subjected to low grade bullying and has been reluctant to spend long enough at the feed trough and she really is too young to be able to fend the others off. This might account for her being underweight.
It is OK to sit back for a few days and observe in many situations as often things go away. Quite a few foot injuries are temporary. It's getting the knack to know when you need to take action and unfortunately on the Forum, you will find a variety of opinions which can be confusing !

 

[Nick]

Well, according to the vet her weight is fine! She is in good health and although she is still a bit wobbly on her leg, the vet could find nothing wrong.... Glad I took her to put my mind at rest. She was up and about this morning when I went to get her, so praps she just had a lie down for a day after hurting her foot! There is no doubt that she is very submissive to the others, but I'm reassured that she is clearly getting enough to eat, she is just a gangly teenager! I think I'll leave them in together for now, she has been in for 8 weeks.... Praps as she gets bigger she will gain in confidence....
Thanks for the advice!!

Nick

 

[Chuck]

Good to know she's in good nick. I'd have kept them on the layers pellets as they were all doing well on them and if your hens are bred for laying, they might well start even though it's winter.

There isn't much difference in the protein levels between growers and layers.

 

[chrismahon]

Only danger with layers when they are not laying is kidney disease from too much calcium intake. Have noticed some of our hens are doing runny white gritty poos at the moment and might they be taking excessive water to flush the kidneys? Those on growers are not. But I have to keep feeding layers when one or more in a flock are still laying.