dilemma over sick mother with chicks

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chickenfan

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I have a bird raising chicks which has gone down with a respiratory infection (symptom noisy breathing) when the chicks (not her own eggs) hatched. I am desperately worried as she is not improving in spite of Tylan then Baytril (which I found too difficult to administer) antibiotics from the vet. She is caring for the chicks well, but is not eating or drinking herself very much. They are now 11 days old and healthy. I know if a bird has a respiratory infection for long it never fully recovers and the illness recurs. I am wondering now whether to separate her from the chicks and to put the chicks under an electric hen. I could at least then nurse her properly in isolation and make sure she gets more medication. What is the best thing to do?
 
I would separate her as you suggest. I'm not sure about the risk of infection but it doesn't seem worth risking it, does it? This warm weather it shouldn't be hard to rear the chicks, and if she's feeling poorly it would be kinder for her not to be bothered with looking after chicks. Think how you would feel if you had bronchitis and had to look after a lot of babies!
 
Thank you Marigold. You always manage to talk a lot of sense. Any idea how traumatic it will be for the mother and for the chicks?
 
So long as they have the company of each other, and a nice brooder to live in, thy probably won't even notice. And anyway, if they are already infected they will soon show you, whereas separating them ASAP may reduce the risk.
As for Mum, well, she may or may not miss them but if she's ill the best option is for her to be quiet and on her own.
 
Thank you Marigold. Mum doesn't look 'ill' as such, but she has a heavy, rattly chest which is not clearing up. Maybe its a virus. She is exceptionally maternal, so If I take her from the chicks just for a minute to medicate her, she goes berserk fighting to get back to them (she is quite strong). I think I need to separate them when it is dark, and when I can get the chicks used to what the electric hen is.
 
Could be she lacks ventilation or the bedding is dusty or damp Chickenfan. She sounds like she needs a change of environment and to get into the fresh air and run about. She is going to pine about her chicks though.
 
Hi Chris, thank you for your message. Yes, I thought it must be an allergy of some sort, but she is outdoors and active with the chicks. I am hoping to pick up Bisolven from the British Hen Welfare Trust Vet this afternoon. This is apparently good for clearing rattly chests.

The chicks have been exposed to whatever she has since birth. Do you think newborn chicks have a stronger immune system and this may wear out? Or are they less likely to go down with respiratory problems at a very young age? I have treated them homeopathically.
 
Apparently in chicks and growers mycoplasma manifests in slower growth and reduced appetite, don't know if this is the same for all respiratory diseases though.
 
How many chicks has she got? Would she be satisfied if you left her a couple and removed the rest? It would be interesting to see how the two groups got on.
 
She has 4 chicks. It is an idea. However, if they lose their mother as well as two of their chick-mates I think this might be even more stressful.
 
I have now spoken to another poultry specialist vet and he recommends leaving her with the chicks because of the stress of separating them. He says the chicks initially have antibodies from the mother hen from within the egg. Perhaps your idea was the best one Marigold to divide the 4 chicks. Mother hen seems a bit worse and has lost a lot of weight in the 13 days she has had the rattly chest since the chicks were born. She sounds as though she is drowning. I am giving her corn at night when the chicks are asleep. I am really not sure best how to care for her and her chicks. I give them boiled egg yolk. I am getting her medication down her but don't seem to be winning.
 
Have you got some chick crumb for the chicks, and then with luck the hen will eat it as well, which will help her to keep up her strength and recover from brooding. The high protein in chick crumb is what the chicks need and it will also have the other elements and supplements they need for a balanced diet. Egg yolk is good for them but they need more at their age.
 
Thank you Marigold. Yes, they all have chick crumbs as their main food. I am beginning to wonder if it may be best, in terms of the health of my flock and other growing birds, to dispatch the broody hen as she has a deep-seated infection and is wasting away. I just feel awful that I haven't managed to get her better.

When I give her medication for a few minutes the chicks do cheep for her even though they aren't cold, so I think it may be traumatic for the chicks and just don't know what is the best way forward.
 
Problem you have here Chickenfan is if the broody dies in the night. Some chicks may be crushed as she thrashes about. You must pull the broody out and get the chicks under an electric hen (cheapest to run) or heat lamp. A black emitter is best (ceramic) because they will be used to night and day now. Chicks hatched under a broody have no social order and it will be a while until they sort themselves out. The broody can still eat chick crumb to build her up. The problem is the broody is using her energy to raise her body temperature to keep the chicks warm. While she is doing that she can't fight the respiratory infection.
 
Gosh, you are a mine of information, Chris and I am so grateful thankyou. I guess I should wait until it is dark to separate them?

I've spoken to a Poultry homeopathic vet and he says chicks are born with a strong immunity which fades at 4-5 weeks, when they may go down with it, so he also thinks best to separate and I'll give them all homeopathic remedies for stress (Ignatia) and Kalibic for the heavy, rattly chest. He says the broody will have a lot of tissue damage if she has had this for two weeks and this will take a long time to repair. The cattargh is the residue of the infection which she is having trouble shaking off. Humid weather makes things worse and carries more bacteria. He seems to think Laryngotrachitis is widely in the wild bird population and the most common in small free range flocks - but I know you aren't in UK.

Of course, that all makes sense about using her energy to keep the chicks warm instead of fighting the infection. Its been very cold at night lately too. I really hope I can get her better and I'm so grateful I know what to do now. It will be very difficult for her leaving her chicks as she is strongly maternal.
 
Well actually it wasn't any problem at all separating them completely. Mum doesn't even seem to notice the chicks aren't there and is now eating well on her own. Chicks are sleeping under the electric hen. Definitely the right thing to do so thank you all.
 
Most hybrids in the UK are immunised against Laryngotrachitis (ILT) Chickenfan. Our Pedigrees were immunised when they caught the strain from hybrids we bought in. It affects the throat and they can't eat. I don't think that is what your hen has. She perhaps has a straightforward respiratory infection which may cause long term lung tissue damage. I don't think she has Infectious Bronchitis (IB) either.

Pleased the separation went so well and I hope things become more straightforward for you. Keeping chickens is supposed to be enjoyable!
 
Thank you Chris. Yes, chicken-keeping is immensely rewarding and enjoyable, but if a bird is sick it turns into a nightmare. The Homeopathic vet referred to ILT being a risk in purebred birds. The first bird I ever got was a multiply vaccinated hybrid (I bought two) who became very ill as soon as she arrived. While she was alive I got respiratory problems in several of my birds, but most of them are no longer with me. What is a 'straightforward' respiratory infection? Is that mycoplasma? Emerald, my Copperblack, has been resting today. She is not drinking much and not eating much either. She was 'chugging' to her chicks all morning, so I hope she is not feeling too bereaved. The chicks seemed slightly disorientated this morning but are OK.

If I get hybrid birds now I get organic ones at day-old and they are vaccinated just for Marek's and Infectious Bronchitis. Thanks again for all your help.
 
A 'straighforward' respiratory infection isn't a virus Chickenfan, which is what all the others mentioned are. Antibiotics don't treat viruses, just the bacterial secondary infection -the chicken has to deal with the virus. So I think your hen has just a bacterial lung infection, caused by lack of ventilation, dust, damp or black mould spores on the walls or in the bedding. Hopefully she will recover quickly now she is separated. We did have one particularly bad case caused by black mould. He required a double dose of Baytril for 10 days.
 
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