Colour genetics

[Anonymous]

Hi everyone,

I have recently aquired a gold laced orpington cockerel to breed with my GL hens in 2010. The breeder (who has bred orpingtons for many years) told me that the cockerel carries the gene for blue lacing and will produce some gold laced offspring and some blue laced.

This is intriging.

Can anyone tell me:

1) is this normal for gold lacing genetics in orpingtons?
2) how does the colour lacing gene work in the breed?
3)If my cockerel carries this blue lacing gene, does this mean he is genuine?

I understand that Gold laced orpingtons are not a 'Standard' breed in the eyes of the Poultry Club of Great Britain. The silly question I'm also going to ask is: How do breeders know what to aim for in this breed if there are no guidelines?

Any comments or advice gratefully awaited.
Oh - and no jokes about chickens in blue jeans please!!!!!!

 

[Tim]

It's the 501 Gene that causes the Blue Jeans...

OK, couldn't resit it! Sorry Hippie Chick!

I had Gold Laced Orpingtons for 3 or 4 years (all photos on that link except the last 2) and I found some were picture perfect, others were much darker (more black) in the feathering. The darker birds, often produced some of the best offspring. I didn't ever see any blues.

I don't know that much about their make up genetically, however, black is of course in there. What I do know is blue is produced when black is diluted. The dilute gene is also recessive so two copies of the gene must be present in the genetic makeup in order for it’s base colour to be diluted. Both parents must carry the dilution gene so it's possible my cockerel didn't carry it.

Some breeders outcross to Buff Orps to improve the buff areas. I out-crossed for 1 generation as a bit of an experiment - Crossed Orpington Pullet. I think I would need to have crossed this hen back to the G/L line to improve the Buff some generations down the line.

I don't know if it's right what you have been told but I would say there's certainly a reasonable possibility.

There should be an original 'breed aim' from the creator in an ideal world - but in reality once a bird breeds true for a number of years and the breeders / non standard show categories define what is desirable, that gets translated into the breed standard.

There was a breeder on Pekin Bantams Forum (A1 and Chicken Crazy) who I had several chats with over the GLO and she really knew about them but sadly I have lost contact with so many people from Pekin Bantams Forum after losing my address book from there when it was finished. I think I have her as a friend on Facebook as she wrote a few articles for the poultrykeeper site.... I will try to find her...

 

[Tim]

I got in touch with Sandy, A1 and Chicken Crazy last night... she's said this:

Gold lace orpingtons, carrying the blue gene is not to be messed with. This is a big no no, if you want to make your gold lace bigger, please use a buff orpington. Blue or black to make the gold lace bigger causes horrible problems - leg colour for a start and when blue is introduced this makes the buff a pale yellow colour as the blue has watered the buff down. This will come out in future generations.
I did tell the breeder never to sell any of the stock on until she has made true blue lace orpingtons. I had some of her stock - thought to be pure gold lace, but when I bred them they were not correct, some had white wings coming from blue/splashes, some were of a very pale colour and some were black with the odd buff splodge, this is because they had doubled up on the blue breeding which was a couple of generations behind them although sold to me a gold lace. I culled all of them. Sorry to worry you on that score. Sandy

 

[victorias poultry]

Completely agree with what Tim is saying, I previously put a black orpington into a pen of gold laced to see if I could increase their size, unfortunately the black had the blue gene and they came out in all sorts of colours including a beautiful large blue hen but with gold flecks around her neck, very nice and sold as pets only as you could never have bred from them.
Personally I would try and take him back and get a gold laced that hasn't been messed with.

Good luck

Sue

 

[Anonymous]

Hi guys,

Many thanks for your input. The pictures shown of the GLO pullets look identical to mine. As far as I know my pullets are pure gold-laced. The cockerel looks very simelar although mine is not as well feathered ( he's still got feather growing though as he's only about 20 weeks old). I think I will definately go ahead and breed him to see what the outcome is. I will not use any resulting blue laced offspring for breeding, and will inform any prospective buyers of the gold-laced of the parental back-ground. I can't say fairer than that.

Do I assume that any gold laced offspring will carry the blue gene too?

In addition to that I've asked santa for a book on colour genetics in poultry so hopefully I will be more educated when buying and breeding stock in the future.

I am surprised the breeder where I got the cockerel from didn't mention any of this to me - I definately won't be going back there!

Thanks again folks.

 

[Tim]

Do I assume that any gold laced offspring will carry the blue gene too?

I would assume that. The offspring will inherit half of their genes from mother and half from father. It will take many generations to get rid of it completely - and blue is hidden under the black.

This is why new 'breeds' don't enter the standards for a number of years until they are breeding true to type reliably for a number of years.

I think the big problem here in this case is while you are trying to get rid of the Blue, you end up removing something else that you want and no longer have GLOs....

Hope this helps....

Tim

PS = yes, they take a long time to mature 25 weeks or so - Mine took 2 years before I had the right size and quality eggs for hatching. You usually have to trim the feathers to get fertility too.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Tim,

Thanks for your reply. At least I know where I stand with this cockerel now. I'm tempted to contact the breeder I got him from to verify what he told me - but I will keep my cockerel anyway - if only to breed 'ornamental' orps. He has a wonderful, friendly temperament so hopefully he will pass on this gene if nothing else!

So now my breeding plan will change a little - but I will be very clear when selling my birds what their make - up is and breeding implications.

For me - this is the start of a very interesting experiment. Perhaps my name will go down in poultry history one day (ha ha!)

Many thanks.